See also: IRC log
<David> will be with you properly in 5 minutes.
<scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips
<scribe> ScribeNick: aphillip
<kennyluck> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/3
kenny: sent email responding on issue 3
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2011JanMar/0004.html
aharon: text-align on
option
... check with CSS on what it does/should/can do on that
gwyneth: also followed up
aharon: sent out note, but just a
few minutes ago
... second action was clarify use cases of form value direction
remembering
... will get to it this coming week
richard has no info to share
text-align on option
gwyneth: talked to sylvan
<r12a-mac> quite hard to hear gwyneth
gwyneth: direction is currently
undefined on option
... not sure what we can do without opening proverbial can of
worms
<kennyluck> +1 bidi is mentioned again and again in CSS, but it's still not enough
aharon: there is a blanket
statement in html5 about native controls
... that they must follow directionality of elements
... so selects must display according to dir
... not sure if native control type of behavior in this case
should be controlled by CSS
<kennyluck> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jan/0354 Aharon's mail about text-align and <option>
revisit next week
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Dec/0015.html
Bug 10810 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10810>
LS and PS be dealt with correctly
aharon: rejected because html
doesn't know anything about textarea and pre
... actually CSS issue
... used to be a statement in html spec
... about whitespace folding
... LS and PS were not considered whitespace
... but that statement is gone
... html doesn't know anything about character semantics
... CSS doesn't say that LS/PS are not supported
... so maybe Unicode should be followed? so every browser has a
bug in it as a result
... fantasai added tests to textarea and pre
... although test has a bug
Bug 10811 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10811>
same issue, but in script dialog text
aharon: rejected, same as above
Bug 10814 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10814>
Proposes that display:block elements, except those taken out of document flow with CSS such as float or position:absolute, should be specified as introducing a UBA paragraph break between the content preceding
and following
aharon: so a div inside a div,
the two should be isolated
... rejected because it's in the purview of CSS
... html spec doesn't say that block elements form paragraphs
or anything like that
... and html has no concept of inline or block elements any
more
... so can't do anything here
... what we want *is* specified in CSS 2.1
... and Mozilla and Opera not doing it is a bug
<kennyluck> +q
kennyluck: that's because mozilla didn't support user-agent stylesheet with bidi properties
<kennyluck> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/rendering.html#rendering
kennyluck: link mentions default
stylesheet
... so this is a suggestion
... to user-agents
... so maybe make the bidi styles a *requirement*
... and have it be separate
... many styles above are not essential
... but some, like bidi, are
aharon: that makes sense to
me
... didn't realize that stylesheet was non-normative
... also state in human-readable text what the thing is
specifying
<kennyluck> [[12 Rendering
<kennyluck> User agents are not required to present HTML documents in any particular way. However, this section provides a set of suggestions for rendering HTML documents that, if followed, are likely to lead to a user experience that closely resembles the experience intended by the documents' authors. So as to avoid confusion regarding the normativity of this section, RFC2119 terms have not been used. Instead, the term "expected" is used to indicate behavior that wil
<kennyluck> lead to this experience. ]]
<kennyluck> we need to make "expected"s into "should"s
<scribe> ACTION: aharon: open new issue on HTML5 to make bidi-related default stylesheet items normative (separate from merely presentational stuff) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/19-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Open new issue on HTML5 to make bidi-related default stylesheet items normative (separate from merely presentational stuff) [on Aharon Lanin - due 2011-01-26].
<kennyluck> so that we can write conforming tests.
Bug 10822 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10822>
Proposes recommending that on an OS that has a widespread convention for setting direction, the user agent should support that convention on input and textarea elements.
aharon: Bug 10825 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10825>
Bug 10825 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10825>
Bug 10825 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10825>
can't talk about scrollbar positioning (html doesn't even talk about scrollbars)
aharon: also approached CSS
... and maybe even a style
... only thing we can do is publish some recommendations about
scroll bars
will revisit
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Dec/0013.html
<kennyluck> +1 and you might want to prefix that with [css3-ui]
Bug 10812 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10812>
Proposes that in <textarea> and <pre>, line breaks should constitute UBA paragraph breaks.
<kennyluck> HTML5 bidi bugs to be closed
aharon: they did add a note to
HTML5 about <pre> though
... and filed similar note for textarea
... which I think was fixed
Bug 10827 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10827>
Proposes that plain text passed by page scripts to whatever services are provided for dialog display without specifying an explicit direction should be displayed according to the UBA's rules P1, P2, and P3, which estimate the direction of each paragraph according to its first strong character.
aharon: stuff likes alerts
... should be displayed according to uba rules
... had no hope of being accepted, but it was
- Bug 10817 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10817>
Proposes requiring that title element text will be displayed in the element's computed direction.
aharon: specified directly for title and also in blanket statement about native controls
Bug 10819 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10819>
aharon: blanket statement about native controls and gives specific example about selective option
Bug 10821 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10821>
Proposes specifying that when the user agent user interface allows the user to set the direction of <input> and <textarea> elements, it will set the element's dir attribute value accordingly and trigger the oninput event after the dir attribute has been set.
aharon: various behavior in
various browsers
... was accepted in full
norbert: only applies to text and search
aharon: tried to be concerned
about, but can't think of any other types
... like password
... don't care which way the blobs appear
Bug 10813 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10813>
defined by Unicode
but included a note
Bug 10815 <http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10815>
Proposes removing the HTML 4 requirement<http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/dirlang.html#style-bidi>that block elements forced to display:inline should effectively get unicode-bidi:embed. Instead, the default value of the ubi attribute for them
should be on
aharon: attribute didn't get
in
... but we have the <bdi> element
... so this couldn't go in, since no attribute to set
... and also because statement in question was removed
... however, default stylesheet has the same thing
basically
... elements that used to be block
... and they changed to unicode-bidi:isolate
richard: think Aharon has done a fantastic job
Addison: yes: kudos!!
<kennyluck> +1 aharon has done excellent job!
<fsasaki> +1!
<David> +1
aharon: hoping to work on test suites to test these features
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2010OctDec/
richard: "don't ignore opentype
features"
... haven't chased down fully
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2010OctDec/0124.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2010OctDec/0124.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2011JanMar/0003.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2011JanMar/0001.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2010OctDec/0127.html
addison: this has to do with
defiing a default locale for widgets
... all that is present is the ability to specify various
language versions
<widget xmlns = "http://www.w3.org/ns/widgets" defaultlocale = "en-us">
http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/WorkingWithTimeZones
gwyneth: there is a big
conference to do with Olson database integration
... can't recall details
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/still/still not/ Succeeded: s/have no/had no/ Found Scribe: Addison Phillips Found ScribeNick: aphillip WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Addison Addison_Phillips David Norbert P22 P25 P4 Richard ScribeNick aharon fsasaki gwyneth i18n joined kenny kennyluck r12a-mac trackbot You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Jan/0004.html Got date from IRC log name: 19 Jan 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/01/19-i18n-minutes.html People with action items: aharon[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]