See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 22 November 2010
<richardschwerdtfe> meeting: W3C HTML Canvas Accessibility Subteam
<scribe> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
<scribe> scribenick: oedipus
<richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010OctDec/0034.html
minutes will be logged to: http://www.w3.org/2010/11/22-html-a11y-minutes.html
CP: second kind of canvas bvehavior used by webkit -- getCSSCanvasContext -- slightly different semantics, but only implemented by webkit
<Downchuck> getCSSCanvasContext
<Downchuck> http://webkit.org/blog/176/css-canvas-drawing/
RS: for zooming detection?
CP: yes -- canvas should work as
is now -- need metrics to know resolution
... css canvas drawing makes sense to have drawing
manager
... set backing to meet resolution when canvas element created
-- that would create a lot of overhead authors would have to
work around, but if use get.css.canvas.conent, can do
RS: applies only to CSS?
CP: CSS canvas has semantic relationship with rendering -- doesn't change my proposal, but interesting idea
RS: CP's proposal is "if get metrics, can get dpi" -- MS exposing everything on right track has been argued
<scribe> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0179.html
RS: satisfied
<Downchuck> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-November/029091.html
CP: pretty happy with them
<Downchuck> Robert O'Callahan proposal for CSS based backing store on a canvas
RS: haven't heard from FO, but
for now consider nothing new
... CP, could you edit current canvas 2d api modifications
document
CP: yes, needs a bit of tidying up
RS: for drawing FocusRing, way set up now, diff from HTML5, is to draw FocusRing based on current drawing path have today -- if OS has high-contrast mode, should draw in its place so can ensure when made call, actually happened and mapped to a11y API and UA
CP: don't see problems with that as long as realize have to use the extents can work with strangely shaped paths -- UA can decide what path -- works
RS: if read spec, magnifier, based on type of object will deterimine how want centered
<Downchuck> extents
RS: problem with hixie's proposal
-- provide x and y coordinates assuming author knows (should be
up to magnifier) - FocusRing separate from caret and
selection
... want to ensure this is understandable
CP: 2 separate things caret tracking and focusRing
RS: CP will review; FO and DB will review what CP produces
RS: made valid point about only
checking hit test on checkbox image and not the entire checkbox
input element -- take code and replace hixie's broken
code
... going to look deeply into RTE
... is there basic code for RTE that we can work off of?
CP: code bass designed from
ground up to match implementation standard -- doesn't use DOM
nodes in shadow DOM, which is needed to get it working
... complex because getting mouse coords and mapping to text is
quite a bit of work
RS: why i didn't want to start from scratch
CP: need stylable select elments was beginning, built up DOM, when got to input type="text" realized a whole lot of other issues -- do need a large library to do RTE
RS: what licensing?
CP: CC 0 public domain
... 100% clear
<Downchuck> http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/
RS: if you could provide me a link and the liscense (creative commons zero) -- am U.S. citizen, so can do public domain
<Downchuck> http://w115.visc.us/html/textbox.html
CP: "dual lisence" by explicitly
stating is "public domain" -- CC0 is for those where public
domain doesn't apply -- if make changes, need branch or
fork
... at bottom of demo, used pseudo CSS -- need to observe in
relation to line breaks (for braille interfaces -- could be
done with unicode) -- CSS generated text easiest way to mark
changes in content -- generating style and injecting image
RS: put a line break in actual content, or CSS-wrapping
CP: can put line break, but
:psuedo CSS method of inserting content directly -- unicode and
existing HTML semantics should work fine
... CSS content spec is on the right path
<scribe> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010OctDec/0034.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010OctDec/att-0035/CanvasEditor.html
<richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010OctDec/0034.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010OctDec/att-0035/CanvasEditor.html works in IE -- GJR try out with JAWS and IE9
GJR: will do
RS: set selection from
contenteditable areas -- how to do across browsers
... FO supposed to have API differences for what they've done
for IE
CP: anything public?
RS: windows.selection -- works on
contenteditable areas -- trying to ascertain what for
caret
... in FF, have collapse property
CP: found similar in chrome --
empty range but different property -- in extentions api despite
lack of caret browsing in Chrome
... if implemented, ranges will work for grammar and spelling
areas -- how to implement is more difficult -- want to set up
range, then get more ranges from it for a spell or grammar
chacker -- might just attach to a single element for ease of
use -- get.Element on current DIV
get.Element.grammarranges
... don't want to do on multiple ranges at once
RS: API for that?
CP: not for spell checking -- range apis fairly well known and implemented to standard, including caret position, albeit in a weird way -- caret position another range with additional properties
RS: selection, then
collapse?
... Chrome and FF try to keep same thing -- get
window.selection return a range -- when have caret, is
collapsed
CP: want to get properties -- if fire a select, may collapse inadvertently
RS: window selection, range X,
select from 0, if range X is collapsed, is caret
... don't know what happens in IE -- have to find out from
FrankO
CP: textareas?
... spelling and get.range on spelling -- get all spelling
ranges inside a single element -- less straightforward is get
me all spelling errors in all ranges -- add to collection of
ranges prototype, and spit out antother collection of ranges --
mozilla did work on allowing multiple ranges being chosen at
same time
RS: going to investigate code; CP
please review what i have for caret
... updating code very important -- don't know what browser
hixie's code works in, but didn't work in IE or FF for me
CP: label might be reason to put out as survey item -- who is implementing label correctly?
CP: brought up baseline and zoom
issues -- have mozilla talking to me about zoom use case
--
... a lot of feedback has been "this isn't a valid use
case"
... no response on baseline issue -- need to know baseline so
can get text on same baseline when in 2 diff font sizes
... getting some traction on ideas from mozilla
RS: glad MS has keyboard nav into sub-tree -- first time been able to do example with shadow DOM -- that is a BIG plus
GJR: will check out with IE9 and JAWS 12
RS: need to look at caret tracking in TEXTAREAs
CP: did a lot of work on caret
tracking a while ago -- IE6 did not have way to do that --
would tell what was highlighted, but not where it was -- fixed
since ranges implemented
... allowable element -- is shadow DOM outside or inside of the
DOM?
RS: part of DOM -- just treat as shadow DOM
CP: items that need to be
initialized such as script src= need to go through process --
if embedded inside CANVAS shouldn't be initialized unless
CANVAS isn't supported
... explicitly say items that need initializtion should not be
initialized, should be ok
... if add SCRIPT to shadow dom, will initialize, before
scripting happens, should create SCRIPT in DOM but not
initialize it
... "activated content" is the key term
RS: if canvas isn't supported, UA
has to fall back to fallback content
... what if stick IFrame in middle of CANVAS?
CP: would make sense that IFrame
available in DOM, but src="foo" bit doesn't load so IFrame
would be empty
... keep existing semantics in place and work with actual
language -- can have IFrame inside shadow DOM, not going to do
anything unless use scr= for scripting
RS: target on scriptiong side?
CP: yes
RS: require spec change?
CP: do need to state how IFRAME is handled in shadow-DOM -- hopefully we just need an explicit statement of that rather than reengineering
RS: haven't seen any comments
from hixie on defects on canvas
... have code to test -- now need to ascertain support
CP: 1 comment: there is a
complexity introduced by separating canvas 2d context from
canvas element -- basic ammount of implementation that needs to
be in any canvas content -- shadow DOM itself is to be found in
CANVAS tag, not canvas context -- wasn't sure if that was
clear
... sub-DOM itself should be addition to canvas element --
should work same for 2d and 3d context
RS: 1-to-1 mapping for elements in DOM to what is seen on visual canvas
CP: want to add to that -- elements inside CANVAS sub-tree do not get initialized in browser mode -- script still available via DOM, just not loaded on window.load -- want to ensure based on actual reality
RS: work on that?
CP: yes -- work on canvas element wording
RS: so another change proposal for canvas?
CP: yes
[adjourned]
meeting+ CANVAS Accessibility Sub-Team
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/propert/property/ Succeeded: s/conext/context/ Succeeded: s/get.ps.canvas.conent/getCSSCanvasContext/G Succeeded: s/no minutes at/minutes will be logged to:/ Succeeded: s/x stems/extents/ Succeeded: i/second kind of canvas/TOPIC: Current CANVAS Issues Found Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita Found ScribeNick: oedipus Present: Rich Gregory Charles WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Frank_Oliver) Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ David_Bolter Regrets: David_Bolter Frank_Oliver Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0179.html Found Date: 22 Nov 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/11/22-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]