See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 17 November 2010
Vlad: EPUB list conversation took place that WOFF is redundant for EPUB.
<ChrisL> scribenick: cslye
Vlad: Font solutions are
fragmented; thinks WOFF is best solution.
... Many list members are undecided.
What is the list?
Vlad: List is: firstname.lastname@example.org
I will talk to the Adobe person about it.
jdaggett: EPUB font is embedded, not linked.
<ChrisL> We would like woff to be ubiquitous though, and we would like epub to deviate from Web standarfds as little as possible
Vlad: If the font data is packaged inside the file, it's embedded, and linking is not embedded.
<ChrisL> its not embedded in the sense of being part of the same document file
ChrisL: Saving web pages: Don't want EPUB to deviate too much from that.
jdaggett: I don't see where we need to say explicitly that any particular font should be used in EPUB. Can recommend WOFF, though.
<John> [Sorry. There seems to besomething wrong with my phone.]
Vlad: EPUB has a "mangled font"
algorithm that was optional.
... WOFF is a better solution since it has more support and has metadata.
jdaggett: That's a dumb requirement.
sergeym: The spec wants to avoid moving a font from one EPUB to aother.
Vlad: I'm not concerned about users with proper license.
sergeym: Just clarifying what the
spec actually says.
... (The EPUB spec.)
Vlad: WOFF informs the
... Keep honest people honest.
... Moving on...
First agenda item: Review open action items.
<scribe> ACTION: 29 to FAQ. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 29
<trackbot> ACTION-29 -- John Hudson to review woff faq with chris and vlad -- due 2010-10-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-36 -- Chris Lilley to recategorise the general conformance criteria -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN
Can be closed.
<trackbot> ACTION-37 -- Chris Lilley to get cracking on test suite. -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN
<ChrisL> close action-36
<trackbot> ACTION-36 Recategorise the general conformance criteria closed
<trackbot> ACTION-37 Get cracking on test suite. closed
<trackbot> ACTION-38 -- John Daggett to help with font creation for the test suite. -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN
We will review Tal's test suite stuff today
Vlad: Should we keep it open?
<jdaggett> yeah, closing it sounds fine
ChrisL: Close it and make a more specific action.
<trackbot> ACTION-38 Help with font creation for the test suite. closed
<trackbot> ACTION-43 -- Jonathan Kew to clarify that @id on uniqueid is required -- due 2010-11-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-43 Clarify that @id on uniqueid is required closed
<trackbot> ACTION-44 -- Jonathan Kew to clarify schema language in text to say one or more text elements -- due 2010-11-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-44 Clarify schema language in text to say one or more text elements closed
<trackbot> ACTION-45 Make item element a required chilkd of extension closed
<trackbot> ACTION-46 -- Chris Lilley to add the two missing conformance statements and split out the stylesheet -- due 2010-11-17 -- OPEN
ChrisL: They were added. Can be closed.
<trackbot> ACTION-46 Add the two missing conformance statements and split out the stylesheet closed
<trackbot> ACTION-47 Edit the media registration to say application/font-woff closed
ChrisL: Was done in accordance with Last Call.
<ChrisL> the general ones are here
ChrisL: Leave untestable things
as lowercase 'must'?
... Take untestable things out of conformance spec.
... Just recommend testing them.
jdaggett: Just mark what's not testable.
ChrisL: I agree, but...
... Following CSS3 font spec is hard to test.
jdaggett: Benefit to leaving CSS3 requirement is useful, though.
Vlad: Better to keep these things
in the spec, even if they're difficult/impossible to
... Let's review the test plans along with looking at Tal's stuff.
Tal: Python script generates
valid and invalid WOFF.
... Link them to testable assertions.
... Should I eliminate tests that aren't tied specifically to testable assertions?
ChrisL: NO NO NO!
Tal: Tricky to make a font that
has only one thing wrong.
... I have a dump of test cases I have now.
<ChrisL> ref as in reference
jdaggett: Ref test compares two
documents; can be automated.
... Alternate test shows PASS/FAIL, when a reference is not available.
... Let's have both kinds of tests.
Tal: Keep the sfnt as simple as possible; with single character?
sergeym: Existing test fonts work fine; we don't need something new.
Tal: Ref tests use a raw font for comparison.
Better to use an installed font, instead of linked?
jdaggett: Have an installed fallback font to use as a flag, to indicate that fonts are loading properly.
Vlad: Create a font with mis-mapped characters, so that "PASS" = "FAIL"
<ChrisL> Text fotr a 'must load' test is 'FAIL" and the font has P glyph for F etc so it looks like'PASS' when loaded
<jdaggett> those are examples of a reftest that uses
<jdaggett> the sort of thing we're talking about
sergeym: We need to show when fonts don't load at all. Need separate font for that?
jdaggett: We have all this already.
<ChrisL> Text for a 'must not load' test is 'PASS" and the font has F glyph for P etc so it looks like 'FAIL' when erroneously loaded
tal: Some testable assertions
test file format. Should a UA test pass even if file format is
... Checksums - validator will fail bad checksums, but UA should pass.
... Need test case for UA where checksums are bad, but UA will pass it.
Vlad: Don't see why we need this test.
jdaggett: We don't want UAs to be required to fail it, but they can if they want.
Vlad: Do we have tests for UA with bad metadata?
tal: I will add some of these edge cases that aren't there.
<ChrisL> ACTION: Tal to create UA test for bad metadata [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Create UA test for bad metadata [on Tal Leming - due 2010-11-24].
<scribe> ACTION: Tal to update UA test plan to include new "fringe" tests. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - Update UA test plan to include new "fringe" tests. [on Tal Leming - due 2010-11-24].
tal: What if padding is done with something other than null bytes?
<scribe> ACTION: Tal to update font format test plan to include new "fringe" tests. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Update font format test plan to include new "fringe" tests. [on Tal Leming - due 2010-11-24].
tal: Please give me comments and suggestions on test plan.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found ScribeNick: cslye Inferring Scribes: cslye WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: ChrisL Erik John John_Hudson P14 Sergei Tal Vlad aaaa aabb aacc aadd aaee aaff aagg cslye erik_ howcome jdaggett jfkthame jfkthame_afk joined scribenick sergeym sylvaing trackbot webfonts You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Found Date: 17 Nov 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html People with action items: 29 tal WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]