See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 10 November 2010
<pfennell> I'll be on the call in the next five minutes.
bind nodeset="age" constraint=". <= 65"
bind nodeset="age" constraint=". >= 18"
bind nodeset="age" constraint=". >= 18" alert="You must be at least 18"
and similarly alert="you must be less than or equal to 65"
just for illustrative purposes
Nick and Leigh: need a way to separate UI from presentation
<klotz> <bind nodeset="age" constraint=". >= 65 ""you must be less than or equal to 65 >
Steven: I feel a similar problem
with select/select1, where we hardwire esp. values in the UI
where they should be in the model
... This is the other direction but similar in that you have to repeat yourself at both UI and model levels
... part of a larger story about separation of model and UI
Leigh: If you had the
xforms-invalid event that included the bind ID of the
constraint that failed,
... not necessarily xforms-invalid
John: breaks because alert not
tied to xforms-invalid
... but logical equivalent of css pseudo-class is something we're free to implement as being always correct, and so it can be tied to whether you show the alert
If you go from invalid because of input 17 to invalid because of input 67, then you don't get an xforms-invalid because the UI control goes from invalid to invalid
Steven: that needs fixing
<Steven> It is a result of us considering invalidity as a monolithic property
John: you could get xforms-invalid with two different context infos, then that would conflict with UI events improvements, which are attempting to eliminate duplicate versions of such events
Leigh: maybe you could use the calculation engine
John: yes that's how I got to using a pseudo MIP syntax
Steven: You mean the attribute on the bind
... would be nice if you could configure an alert MIP using codes that could be referenced by alert at the UI level
<bind ... constraint="X" alertcode="1"
<bind ... constraint="Y" alertcode="2
<klotz> <bind id="too_young" constraint="age < 3"><alert bind="too_young">...</>
<input> ... <alert ref=" something that refers to alert codes and makes strings"
<Steven> <bind constraint=".>17"><alert>Too young!</alert></bind>
Maybe you could say that UI alert ref="X" is a reference to the alert message associated with thenode
<bind ref="some node" constraint="X"><alert>Broken due to X</alert></bind>
<Steven> <bind ref="age" constraint ". > 17"><alert>Too young</alter></bind>
Steven: <input ref="some node"> automatically gets the alert from above
Nick: But if you want to style it, then it needs to be in the UI
Steven: It is copied to the UI
John: wouldn't this type of alert show up in UI as a pseudo element?
Nick: yes but you'd also need to be able to get it in the error summary
John: Yes, this is where we'd need to issue an xforms-invalid for an invalid control because the reason changed
Nick: Putting just text is insufficient due to translation needs
John: you could put a ref on the alert in the bind
<klotz> <repeat nodeset="invalidity-reasons('age')
Nick: Can you use an output with mediatype text/html in the alert in the bind?
John: I don't have a problem with it because we already do this in the message action
<scribe> ACTION: John to add the constraint-sensitive alert issue described above to the wiki in Category XForms 1.2 as an issue, with links from UI events and multiple MIPs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-forms-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-647 - Add the constraint-sensitive alert issue described above to the wiki in Category XForms 1.2 as an issue, with links from UI events and multiple MIPs [on John Boyer - due 2010-11-17].
<Steven> trackbot, status?
Steven: a number of groups have been asking how we did the spec in the wiki, so I'll have to report to HCG
<nick> * No section nr. in section references
<nick> *  is no longer part of link for references
<nick> * missing <p> -> less spacing
Steven: diff doesn't show 100% of
... section numbers are hard to add and examples are all showing up as diffs
... so other than a few minor issues, the spec is ready to go and we need to decide what our next steps are
... we've talked about refactoring the spec, for example
Nick: group, switch, repeat, and functions look straightforward
John: submission is more or less
a module too
... a couple of functions are module-specific
Nick: they can be moved to their respective modules, but the functions module is still a good idea for most of them
<Steven> Type card-number is related to is-card-number
Steven: In some cases, the function is linked to a datatype, e.g. is-card-number() is related to the card-number datatype, so maybe it should go in a datatypes module?
<Steven> So the question is, are datatypes and functions seperable
Steven: we have a lot of date manipulation functions as well
<Steven> So maybe things like that should be brought together
John: how would we indicate what constitutes the whole of XForms 1.2?
Steven: collect the chapters together, perhaps by reference
John: other than by reference, isn't that what we have now?
<nick> what about http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/The_XForms_Dialog_Module, http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/The_XForms_Transform_Function_Module do we merge them in to the XForms spec?
John: these chapters are largely
separable, but the last 10% is really hard, from our prior
... I think we could leave it separate so we can start to figure out what we can live with in terms of a separate module that references to the rest of the spec.
Leigh: I like the lazy authoring approach.
<scribe> ACTION: Steven to create the XForms 1.2 page in the wiki as the basis from which to work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-forms-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-648 - Create the XForms 1.2 page in the wiki as the basis from which to work [on Steven Pemberton - due 2010-11-17].
John: we could use the 1.1 page as the basis for creating 1.1 second edition with diffs for errata
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