See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 27 October 2010
<Karl_> karl seiler in on the call
<matt> Scribe: jdesmit
ajbarun: walks through the agenda
ajbraun: re-iterates jdesmit's proposal how to handle editing the terminology wiki
<matt> Jens wiki mail
<ggale> +1 to that suggestion
<danbri> +1 public is good!
<matt> ACTION: andrew to send out mail describing mailing list usage [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Send out mail describing mailing list usage [on Andrew Braun - due 2010-11-03].
ajbraun: proposes to do as much discussion on the public list
matt: only use member mailing list for arranging f2f and such; stuff that is REALLY only relevant to member
... issues that need resolution when there is a problem that needs a resolution, that's member list. the rest is public list
ajbraun: even updating the wiki and getting the word out is good for the public list
<matt> Participant list
matt: you can set up watchlists for the wiki if you want to track something
Gary: is the wiki editable by all?
matt: no, only WG members
... we will need to decide how to organize the wiki, but it's working out ok now. future action item though
<matt> Agenda page
matt: Andy put up a page with all the agendas. you can edit the agenda if you have items and Andy will finalize it ~ 48hrs before the next call
<matt> [[He will organize the suggestions and send out an official agenda 24-48 hours in advance]]
ajbraun: sent out a proposal for face to face 8-9 december in Atlanta
<matt> Poll for F2F in Atlanta
ajbraun: would like to get a feeling for how many people will attend, please fill in the poll
ggale: can't make it that week. the week of the 13th would suit me better
<danbri> (though I won't be able to make the trip, I know that...)
ajbraun: would be good if we know what we're up to before the next call
<ggale> Idealistic but it would be good if we could *all* be there ... would achieve much more IMHO
jdesmit: can't make it either if it's that weel
<Ronald> For me a week later (13th) would be a bit better as well
ronald: would like the 13th better as well
<ggale> Suggestion ... if there's too much dissent on the f2f meeting ... we could push it to early 2011 after the New Year festivities
ajbraun: later may cause us trouble with holidays and all
<matt> Terminology Wiki page
ajbraun: started a terminology wiki
<ajbraun> matt, Need to head out. I think the terminology is a good start
ggale: started the wiki page by going through old conversations
... probably some gaps in it, definitely a WIP, hopefully will grow in the next weeks
ajbraun: was a good start
<ajbraun> bye to all sorry for the speedy exit. ANSWER the POLL please
matt: takes over chairing from Andy who got another meeting
<vin> I'm having trouble dialling in. I'm temporarily in a new home, and have no international call privelages. my colleague vinod is here though who can answer questions on my behalf
matt: mail from Christine: what was the purpose of the terminology wiki?
<matt> Jens reply
<ajbraun> Try calling through google chat should be free to US number
ggale: jens' email summarizes my proposal: the terminology is for within the group
<ggale> +1 for reviewing action items
<matt> Tracker actions
<matt> Action 4
<ggale> Mea culpa .... will know for next time
matt: going over how to work with action items when typing e-mails
<matt> close ACTION-4
<trackbot> ACTION-4 Start terminology page on POI wiki closed
matt: shows how to close an action item through irc
<matt> Open Action Items
<Zakim> matt, you wanted to address the questions from mail
Karl_: about ACTION-3, not sure if my spreadsheet got through to the rest because permissions had not been setup yet
matt: did not see it...
Karl_: can I send it through again?
matt: send it through the public mailing list or the wiki. If it's not too big, do it on the list
<matt> close ACTION-5
<trackbot> ACTION-5 Introduce Matt and Andy to Korean potential IEs closed
<matt> ACTION: matt to follow-up on Korean contacts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - Follow-up on Korean contacts [on Matt Womer - due 2010-11-03].
<Karl_> ACTION-3 sent to member email
<Ronald> got the mail
<matt> Karl's action item
Karl_: sent the results of ACTION-3
matt: shall we walk through it?
Karl_: 4 categories; Search, Destination Selection, B2B, Informational
<matt> ACTION: Karl to move usecases XLS to wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-8 - Move usecases XLS to wiki [on Karl Seiler - due 2010-11-03].
matt: go through it one by one?
Karl_: let's not take call time for that, but everybody please read through it
<scribe> ACTION: all to read Karl's use cases once on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action04]
matt: time to start thinking about what we're going to be producing
matt: charter is mostly a stake in the ground to get going from
matt: charter contains a 'recommendation' and some 'notes'. difference between recommendation and notes is that a recommendation is subject to all the IP hoo-ha of the W3C, notes are less stringent
<Karl_> lets add that term to the list - "IP hoo-ha"
matt: reiterates the deliveables in the charter
ggale: I have a problem with the phrase "focus on POI use within AR applications"
... there are a whole lot of non-AR POI use cases in the real world right now
... a focus on AR would be a disservice to the rest of the field
matt: AR was the main driver for this group forming
... we can also add deliverables if we want to
... that's why the "core" deliverable is formulated AR-free
ggale: AR as driver for the WG is new to me
<Karl_> yes for AR is an example of the need for connectivity, one of many uses, but not the only or core purpose
<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to comment on " This group will primarily focus on POI use within AR applications "
ggale: all this AR on the charter might put off people
<Karl_> so what's the process to amend the charter?
matt: we can have a separate AR call or taskforce if we need to.
<danbri> what's good for general POI exchange, so long as it's extensible, should be good for AR; and AR is a great sanity-check use case for us
matt: I think the "core" is where most of the hard work is going to be done
<ggale> So does someone want to take a stab at rewording the charter?
<Ronald> Agree that the core POI should be general, and use AR as a good use case
and we really should keep extensibility and mutiple uses in mind
matt: don't be put off by the word AR just yet
... amending the charter already might be a little early
<marengo> +1 to keep AR in the background (e.g. a use case)
<ggale> Not trying to derail ... merely clarify
<danbri> I take it along lines of ... "This group will primarily focus on POI re-use; in particular taking AR applications as a source for requirements and for evaluating it's work in a demanding setting." (but +1 on not formally redoing the charter)
<ggale> Someone's line died
matt: previous process that worked is starting with a ToC
<danbri> we lost audio
<ggale> I can hear myself on echo so I must still be on the call
matt: sorry, phone crashed
... so, start off with a skeleton ToC/document structure
<jlemorda> AR is probably more difficult than non AR?
matt: anyone want to volunteer to start on this doc, manage the process?
Karl_: from the e-mail I gather there's a lot of good existing work that we should use
<matt> [[I should have started with reviewing what's out there, yikes, sorry]]
Karl_: we really should pull together budding standards, emerging POI formats that are in the world out there
... and then as a group do cherry picking on the best ones
matt: maybe we want to start a wiki page collecting existing standards?
<Karl_> right and start the work of extracting pros and cons and best reuse sections
<matt> Related Specifications page
matt: gonna make a wiki page with related stuff, please make contributions to it
... don't be shy about adding stuff :)
<Ronald> Sounds good
matt: next week is big W3C meeting in France, so no call
... but, please work through e-mail
jdesmit: We should work on terminology and related specifications?
<ggale> So to confirm, there's no call on 11/3 ... ?
<jlemorda> will give a demo with audio POI at TPAC
<danbri> oh cool
<Karl_> was the poll via email, can not find?
matt: Jacques will give demo of Audio POI at TPAC similar to what he showed at ISMAR
<matt> scribe: matt
matt: 1. Answer the F2F poll: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/45386/POIWG-F2F-2010/
<Karl_> Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges - t get to the poll
2. Update the related specifications page: http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Related_Specifications
<danbri> where would i put something like this? http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/oxpoints/index.xml.ID=body.1_div.2 ... ... oxford uni db of points (of various kinds) around campus
3. Contribute use cases to: http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Use_Cases
4. Ponder the Table of Contents/Skeleton form for our three documents
5. Consider whether you can be a gatekeeper/editor of the documents
<scribe> scribe: jdesmit
matt: so these are the 5 things to work on/consider the next two weeks
<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask about kinds of user (personas?) re Use cases (eg. client side .js developer, mobile developer, search engine architect, mapping professional, Actual End
danbri: thinking about use cases: developers and such and end users
... how should we organize this?
matt: haven't given it any thought myself
Karl_: let's classify use cases by their perspective and perhaps some other categories. I'll take a pass at that
<matt> ACTION: Karl to add a persona/perspective type field to use cases. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Add a persona/perspective type field to use cases. [on Karl Seiler - due 2010-11-03].
<danbri> biggest distinction I see is end-user of some system, versus technology-user of this W3C POI WG tech/standard; presumably the two are quite related...
ggale: do we want to try and build on the discussion of "what constitues a POI"?
... because I think we were getting somewhere, would be great to codify it somewhere
<Karl_> yes, i will primarily focus on non-end user as we drill into details, those aspect of use cases needing enablement
matt: sounds like an action item
ggale: oh, go on then
<matt> ACTION: Gary to codify on the WIki the "What is an Point of Interest" discussion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Codify on the WIki the "What is an Point of Interest" discussion [on Gary Gale - due 2010-11-03].
ggale: another action item for someone: please beautify the terminology page if you know some wiki markup
<danbri> if we chose say 200 *actual* points of interest, we could use that as a metric for when the group is "done", ie. when we've adequately described them all
ggale: make it look as if we're a bunch of professional, not like this
<matt> ACTION: Matt to make the terminology page look nicer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action07]
matt: I was planning on trying to figure out a style for us to use so I'll take that
<trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Make the terminology page look nicer [on Matt Womer - due 2010-11-03].
<matt> ACTION: Matt to work on style guide for Wiki usage [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-poiwg-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-12 - Work on style guide for Wiki usage [on Matt Womer - due 2010-11-03].
matt: thanks all. remember that there will not be an offical call next week
<Karl_> ok, adios
<ggale> Have a good week everyone
matt: the conference is open so you can start a chat if there's a big discussion
<Ronald> Thanks everybody