CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference -- 25 Oct 2010

<trackbot> Date: 25 October 2010

<TabAtkins_> Oh wait, 2pm

<smfr> TabAtkins_: ? it's now!

<TabAtkins_> Dang timezone math!

<scribe> scribeNick: pdengler

TPC Meeting

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010OctDec/0017.html

ed: Chris was noting Thursday afternoon was bets for both WG

smfr: I won't be able to meet at TPAC but I would like to call in

pdengler: meta question: who from CSS is in this task force?

TabAtkins: simon and tab

pdengler: I talked to Sylvain who had said he hand't heard anything from CSS SVG Task force

TabAtkins_: We should do more to communicate back to the CSS task foce

ed: How do we communicate back?

smfr: communicate back to the CSS working group via actions

ed: sounds like a good idea

pdengler: I looked at the latest version and it looked as though we were getting back to the CSS team

shepazu: Why do we have two

ChrisL: Thought we decided to move this to the CVS of the task force and merge them

shepazu: That was my impression as well

ChrisL: Does that mean that the CSS has continued to evolve?

smfr: There have been some minor changes to the 2d trasnforms spec
... The 3d spec hasn't been worked on recenlty

ChrisL: There needs to be one spec for both SVG and CSS
... Both have been working on similar concepts in the past, but there should only be one of these

anthony: That was my impression as well which is why we added simon and dean

ed: This is the view of the CSS working group as well?

smfr: Make sure that the CSS working group includes this in the list of CSS working gruop is invovled in

ChrisL: There is a list of CSS specs. We should update the link to the one we are working on

<smfr> the FX spec would need to be linked from here: http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work

pdengler: I just need to make sure the CSS working group in on the same page
... Will that apply to filters?

TabAtkins_: Yes

ed: I do have an existing action on the task force to commit the SVG Filters spec and how to deal with CSS box moels and such

adrianba: If specification moves into a joint CVS repository, where does the recommendation get published?
... From a patent policy is for both groups?

<smfr> hard to hear ChrisL

ChrisL: The editors draft is published under both.It is covered under the same patent policy and this is allowed by W3C to form task force

shepazu: To clarify, it will be a safe spec from the IP perspective

ed: there is a filters spec for 2.0

<smfr> minutes are fine

<Zakim> adrianba, you wanted to ask about where the Rec will be published

shepazu: CSS/SVG Transforms should include both

ed: Are there specific topic at TPAC we want to discuss

shepazu: Can we talk about transforms getCoordsAt first

pdengler: I want to discuss whether or not the working groups can focus on a few areas that add a lot of value
... e.g. Transforms (let's close?), transitions and animations (?) how do they apply to just transforms
... and filters
... What is a realistic timeline for a spec to get to last call

shepazu: If it is agreed, it's just about work

ChrisL: Safarai has an implementation that works in HTML

smfr: only works with CSS

ChrisL: do you see problems with applying it as a style for SVG

smfr: Not really

ChrisL: We then need 2 implemenation

shepazu: if there is only one implemenation then there are chances that will be interop problems

pdengler: but isn't this our position on writing test cases per assertion up front

ed: very helpul

shepazu: it's a matter of time and resources

ChrisL: If we have more than one implementer interested in this, then we can move forward more quickly
... Look at current fx draft, and current in CSS and do a merge

shepazu: We should merge those specs and get the point across that we have one spec

<scribe> ACTION: smfr to coordinate back to CSS working group our method for delivering CSS-Transforms Specification as a singluar specification and fix up links [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/25-fx-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-19 - Coordinate back to CSS working group our method for delivering CSS-Transforms Specification as a singluar specification and fix up links [on Simon Fraser - due 2010-11-01].

Transforms and getCoordsAt

<shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010OctDec/0013.html

shepazu: We talked about this in the SVG workig group

<shepazu> http://jwatt.org/svg/tmp/mouse-relative-positioning.svg

shepazu: In getting mouse coords for a transformed object is a pain
... We want to have a method that tranlates to the two coordinate spaces
... This applies to CSS and SVG transforms
... This was suggested as an add to DOML3 spec
... But it was to add to CSS/SVG Trasnform specs
... This would be on the element interface, not the MouseEvent interface
... getCoordsAt on mouseEvent is not the proposal, but rather on the elmenet interfaces

smfr: We added a method on the Window interface called convert point to node.

shepazu: Having the two way translate is what is important

smfr: Agree that this is needed
... In 2d Transforms in CSS land we have a 2d matrix; in terms of the task force whether or not it aligns with 3D matrix
... Similarlity we are going to end up with SVGPoint, and whether or not that works in CSS
... We need to think about how other interfaces impact the Transforms interface

shepazu: We need to look at the SVG Methods; let's get them right, maintaining backward compat, but steering toward new methods

<smfr> oops

shepazu: I agree that you probably don't want SVGPoint, we want to make it simple

smfr: Perhaps webPoint webMatrix etc

<smfr> FXPoint@

anthony: That's what I have been worried about

<smfr> !

shepazu: perhaps we could consider DOM
... Bringing in resig and others to help might be a good idea
... This is a process.

<scribe> ACTION: smfr to create initial draft of unified interfaces including data types across SVG and CSS [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/25-fx-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-20 - Create initial draft of unified interfaces including data types across SVG and CSS [on Simon Fraser - due 2010-11-01].

heycam: If we have a list, I would like to go through them.

<smfr> anthony: you sound like you're at the end of a long narrow pipe

anthony: I'll start sending stuff in email to get a list going

shepazu: Might not be a bad idea to blog about this as well to make it more acessible
... I will write a blog post about this sometime in November

ed: I had an items for the transform spec

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010OctDec/0019.html

ed: The transform property is noted as being applied to container elements and graphical elements

<scribe> ACTION: anthony to update spec to read 'transform property applies to any SVG element that uses transform attribute' [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/25-fx-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-21 - Update spec to read 'transform property applies to any SVG element that uses transform attribute' [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-11-01].

http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTransforms.html

<ed> pdengler: there are no svg examples using style="transform: ..."

<ed> ed: yeah, there should be some svg examples

pdengler: CSS: div {transform: rotate(45deg);}

CSS: rect {transform: rotate(45deg);}

ed: Topic: Telecon times
... Daylight savings time switch

anthony: Does that mean that these will be an hour later?

ed: Keep time as is for now

<smfr> fine by me

heycam: THis time is good for m

What is the status of animations and transitions

ed: Those modules are in CSS CVS correct

smfr: They are there, they are both working draft.
... Transitions we have 3 implementations
... Animations we have one implementation

pdengler: Do we think they belong in the task force
... I think of CSS animations and transitions animating "stuff"

smfr: The tricky part is if you do both

ChrisL: SMIL animation already has the concept of animating a attribute vs property

pdengler: I think its a difficult proposition to have 2 animation engines colliding
... I woudl preserve SMIL for SVG in XML and move fowrad with CSS transitions and animations for SVG in HTML5, and let those specs live in CSS

- DRAFT -

CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference

25 Oct 2010

Attendees

Contents

TPC Meeting

Transforms and getCoordsAt

What is the status of animations and transitions

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output