Internationalization Core Teleconference

29 Sep 2010


See also: IRC log


Addison, Richard, Norbert, Felix, David, Andrew, Gwyneth
Aharon, Mati
Addison Phillips
Addison Phillips


<scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips

<scribe> ScribeNick: aphillip

<r12a> hey addison, do you fancy giving a lightning talk at tpac ?

<r12a> ?

<r12a> felix, what did you just do ?

<kennyluck> r12a: felix is not in this channel

<r12a> i just asked him to tmove zakim back

<r12a> thanks felix

<fsasaki> np

Minutes and Agenda review

Action Items

all: review HTML5 (rolling action item to be reviewed weekly)
... review working with time zones with an eye to publishing to wider review for next week

addison: send announcement of channel change and update agenda, etc.: WG will now use #i18n instead of #core in IRC

<scribe> DONE

addison: send update note to public@ about WWTZ to remind all to review document

Aharon: file bugs on HTML5 and CSS and send working group pointers to them

<scribe> DONE

Info Share

<scribe> chair: welcome to Gwyneth

addison: IRI interim meeting next Tuesday


richard: can't think of anything

What Time Is This Meeting At?

<r12a> +1 to doodle poll

<scribe> ACTION: David: set up doodle poll for when this meeting will be held following dst transition [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

ITS and ePub

felix: ITS interest group
... following development of ePub
... and discussions of ruby, et al
... ePub is doing major i18n revision
... but not much yet to localization related aspects
... which ITS does cover
... ITS WG also has a best practice document
... which might want to be taken into account in epub development
... what is the best channel to achieve this?
... murata-san is a key person here
... should ITS IG just engage him?
... or forward comments to core first?

addison: think that ITS IG exists to deal with cases like this

r12a: +1

Ruby and Text Direction

richard: ruby is being discussed again
... being kickstarted by epub
... text-direction
... fantasai proposed to change text layout module
... hope to do so quickly
... so ePub needs are covered
... kenny also partcipating (a Team member)
... will spend 80% of time on internationalization
... main area of focus is text layout and ruby
... going with fantasai to taiwan

<kennyluck> Yay, I am sorry but I am also listening to #CSS (discussing IDPF liaisons), so I couldn't join the talk today. I'll provide extra info later.

richard: looking at bopomofo ruby, etc.
... discussions going on current on public-i18n-cjk@
... you may want to subscribe to that list
... also public-i18n-bidi@ list
... for bidi issues

addison: think individuals should subscribe if their interest warrants

richard: css ruby module is in editor's copy
... not in CR
... raised some bugs on HTML5
... asking for <rb> tag as an option
... some question if HTML5 model fits needs of ruby well
... probably not going away
... do we need complex ruby per XHTML??
... there are some implementations
... but some resistance
... can we get around most of the requirements?
... ruby annotation spec was always written with an eye to general annotation
... "could use ruby for this or that"
... part fo the question is whether to adapt ruby model and make it very specific to ruby
... or use for other things
... otherwise focus on producing CJK annotations
... part of complexity is arbitrary alignments
... more than one ruby text associated with a base
... can do it with nested ruby tags?
... but I think it might not be too bad and could work

addison: any actions for now??

richard: follow on cjk list


richard: bug reports are in public-i18n-bidi@ list

addison: these are the bidi bugs Aharon gave you

richard: yep. that's where bidi discussion is so put it there
... also raised two bugs about ruby and put them on public-i18n-cjk@
... raised a few bugs but not many
... 1 October is deadline
... so feature requests must really be in by then
... last call several months from now
... going to work through bug list before then
... might have interest in a "translate" flag?
... since translating some web sites
... maybe a clear need for it?
... resurrect before Friday?

norbert: what would it do?

richard: it would say "do not translated the text in this element"
... google has a way of doing that
... hixie basically said "don't see a lot of demand for that"
... but the fact google has something for it says a lot for it?

norbert: how does google do it?

richard: some attr or class they use

felix: suggested that HTML5 should support ITS directly
... pushback was "use a specific class value"

addison: maybe put it back out there again

felix: XLIFF meeting I attended...
... more folks would like to integrate localization info into the source format for interoperability with tools/formats such as XLIFF
... so maybe that would help that community a lot
... so a large group of folks who would support

<scribe> chair: any objections to raising as WG issue?

<scribe> ACTION: richard: file 'translate' attribute request as a bug with HTML5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<r12a> [[

<r12a> If you don't mind your web page being translated by Google Translate, except for a particular section (like an email address, for example), just add class=notranslate to any HTML element to prevent that element from being translated. For example: Email us at <span class="notranslate"> sales at example dot com

<r12a> ]]

<scribe> chair: raise any issues you personally have as personal issues; WG will consider endorsing


(no business this week)


Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: David: set up doodle poll for when this meeting will be held following dst transition [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: file 'translate' attribute request as a bug with HTML5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/09/29 17:16:57 $

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Addison Phillips
Found ScribeNick: aphillip
Default Present: [Microsoft], aphillip, Felix, andrewc, Richard, David, gwynethm
Present: Addison Richard Norbert Felix David Andrew Gwyneth
Regrets: Aharon Mati
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Sep/0007.html
Got date from IRC log name: 29 Sep 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html
People with action items: david richard

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