Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference

03 Sep 2010


See also: IRC log


[ISI], Luc, pgroth, smiles, +1.619.524.aabb, Irini, jun, +1.706.461.aacc, paolo, +, DGarijo, jcheney, SamCoppens
Yolanda Gil
Luc Moreau


<trackbot> Date: 03 September 2010

<scribe> Scribe: Luc Moreau

<scribe> ScribeNick: Luc

+44.238.059.aaaa is Luc

1. Review what we have accomplished so far

2. Wish list of what we would like to do as a group

3. Options for the remainder of xg live

4. Who does what?

4. ... and what options they would prefer

44 people in the group, and still growing!

Thanks to some very strong contributors!

<JimM> +1!

Not a good representation from industry, except a few exceptions. Need to keep this in mind.

We collected use cases for provenance, identified dimensions for provenance.

Lead to user and technical requirements.

Requirement document released a while back.

Contribution to "RDF next steps"

Mapping of provenance vocabularies

Indexed provenance literature on Mendeley

Three scenarios were elaborated, and gaps identified

State of the art report drafted, and to be completed in coming fortnight

We starting to have a good shared understanding of provenance.

Wish list of things to be done:

yolanda: leave bibliography collection in a good state, and linked to state of the art report

<smiles> +q

yolanda: nice diagrams for news aggregator. Could we have similar diagrams for the other scenarios?
... write a roadmap report, including a set of recommendations
... think about role of provenance in the web architecture
... in report, include provenance vocabulary mapping

<pgroth> we used powerpoint

<jcheney> +q

jcheney: describing provenance information for static things vs dynamic things
... what is the length of the final report?
... if we want something to happen, a short document may be the most effective

yolanda: let's try to keep it short and sweet!
... 3 major sections: requirements, state of the art, roadmap

paolo: have a set of slides with the report

<pgroth> +1

<pgroth> also would be nice to have it look good :-) nice pictures

<DGarijo> +1

<Paolo_> ack

luc: definition of provenance?

<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/What_Is_Provenance

<DGarijo> +q

DGarijo: prototype example on how to do the mapping

yolanda: is it in the remit of this group?

<DGarijo> -q

<jcheney> re implementing the mappings: could this be a recommendation for the final report, rather than something we do (it may take more than a month)


<Jose_> agree

<ssahoo2> -q

<pgroth> +q

yolanda: get more traction from other w3c groups, especially if we recommend further activities

paul: try to get endorsement from other groups, when we have recommendations drafted

yolanda: what should come first?, outreach or recommendations?
... use outreach to refine initial set of recommendations

<Paolo_> ack

yolanda: we will compete against other w3c undertakings, e.g. next versions of http, rdf, etc. Finite resources are w3c. Need for community support, coherence, and leadership.

next item: 3. Next options at this point

4 possibilities to be discussed

1. we finalize by Sep 21st. This may imply we don't complete some activities.

2. In principle agreement by w3c to extend the current charter by 2-3 months if we wish

<Jose_> For the wishlist record: might be interesting to consider the establishment of a provenance technology observatory bound to the group. Would need to see how this can be done.

3. Wrap up what we have at this point, and write a charter for a follow-on group.

This would be a follow-on incubator.

4. Recommend the creation of a working group.

Options 1 to 4 are not mutually exclusive.

Next item in agenda, what do people prefer? what can they contribute?

Daniel: volunteers to do more work! preference for option 2 and decide in that time what to do next

irini: option 2, clean up what we have, and think about next activity

james: option 2, and figure out what we do next
... there are more aspects related to provenance that may need to be taken into account later, e.g. provenance in rdf, though not ready for standardization yet

JimM: would like a future activity to standardize on a core of provenance. We should think about what this core is.

jose: understand how our recommendations can have an impact on w3c

Jun: happy with option 2 and put work into the documents

Luc: option 2, and prepare for option 4 during this period

Paolo: option 2 + also reachout. Option 4 shoud focus on a core to be realistic, need someone to lead.
... funding to support that follow-on activity?

<jcheney> @Paolo: in UK: maybe reach out to Web Science trust for support? http://webscience.org/home.html

Paolo: use the provenance workshop at ISWC to report on group activities

<ssahoo2> SWPM10 wokshop link: http://wiki.knoesis.org/index.php/SWPM-2010

Paul: doesn't mind small extension (e.g. option 2)

<Paolo_> @James (and Luc and Jun...) -- yes. maybe we can brainstorm separately on funding options for this?

paul: if we have agreement on a data model, it would be worthwile to have a precise, focused charter for standardizing a data model (short duration, 1 year)

sam: would be good to agree on a core

<jun> @Paolo(and James and Luc): it sounds a good idea

Simon: support for option 2 + need for a working group to standardize

Satya: option 2, use extension time to think about WG charter. Volunteers time to new activities

Yolanda: seems there is support for option 2, and do a proper job at putting forward recommendations

<pgroth> november

Action yolanda extend lifetime of incubator

<trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: No child element named 'id') - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.

End of november: december too hectic month

I must go in a few minutes, can someone finish minutes, and close down robot?

<jcheney> +q

<ssahoo2> +1 for december, I have to leave now

I am leaving now, sorry.

<Irini> +1 for james

<pgroth> +q

<jcheney> -q

<YolandaGil> We agreed that we should extend the group's life until mid-December

<YolandaGil> We should start thinking about what recommendations to make, let's discuss that at next week's telecon

<YolandaGil> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/09/03 16:20:52 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/on/of/
Found Scribe: Luc Moreau
Found ScribeNick: Luc

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.

Default Present: [ISI], Luc, pgroth, smiles, +1.619.524.aabb, Irini, jun, +1.706.461.aacc, paolo, +, DGarijo, jcheney, SamCoppens
Present: [ISI] Luc pgroth smiles +1.619.524.aabb Irini jun +1.706.461.aacc paolo + DGarijo jcheney SamCoppens
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2010Sep/0000.html
Found Date: 03 Sep 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-prov-xg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>.

Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of 
new discussion topics or agenda items, such as:
<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]