HTML-A11Y telecon

02 Sep 2010

See also: IRC log


Eric_Carlson, Janina, John_Foliot, kliehm, paulc, Michael_Cooper, jongund, Rich, Steve_Faulkner, Mike, Marco_Ranon


<janina> agenda: this

<kliehm> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

<paulc> PaulC declines scribe opporunity since I am chairing the Weekly WG call today and have to leave early.

Actions Review

<JF> scribe: jongund

<MichaelC> scribe: jongund

MS: Action 47 on SF to file a bug on making autocomplete consistent with ARIA

SF: Will do

MS: No status?

SF: No

Subteam Reports

JS: JS: Bug sub team, did we formalize? MC: We made decisions, but not formally
... We talked about responsibilities last week, and the sub teams could put up proposals
... Comment on sub teams?
... Any objections of giving them sub team status?

MC: We have had 3 meetings, one as sub team

<kliehm> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bug_Triage

<MichaelC> Bug Triage wiki page

MC: I setup a wiki page for bug triage

<paulc> Could the scribe go on mute? The typing is quite distracting.

MC: We have taken all the items declared as bugs
... We are meeting on Tuesdays

JS: Anyone can participate
... Are you sending out agendas?

<MichaelC> Bugs with high priority

MC: No, but we have not formally set a chair, our agenda is to go through bugs

JS: Loosing your audio MC

MC: I am on the noisy microphone
... I pasted in the bugzilla query we are going through

RS: Is this just the HTML specs or does it include canvas

MC: We are using the Accessibility task force key words
... Two weeks ago we talked about the ALT text bugs, they were not considered a priority since they were in good hands, canvas the same way

RS: I am concerned about canvas

<kliehm> The key word is #a11yTF, originally triaging #a11y bugs

MC: We would probably send canvas issue to you (RS)

JS: The are many of these meetings going on

MC: Now that we are empowered to make decisions, more people may attend

JS: Thank you MC, I think the team should nominate there own lead
... JF media update, or I can

JF: User requirements document, to the wider working group on the next call
... It is still a fluid living document
... We are trying to map user requirements with different technologies we are talking about, enormous question
... We are just trying to identify technologies, there is active working being done, the timelines are very aggresive
... There will be a table by this weekend

JS: Questions or discussions?
... JF ARIA Mapping update?

JF: There have been a slew of bugs
... We are waiting for the HTML% editor to respond

<paulc> ... coming off mute

JF: We were lead to believe where we are going with this today, nothing so far
... The over arching bug is #10066

PC: I think you have the description exactly correct, I have not seen it either
... We were suppose to get extensibility proposal, that is not here yet
... There is a W3C survey on the licensing of HTML5, so this maybe keeping people pretty busy, stay tuned

SF: We were lead to believe the bugs would be responded to by this date

PC: I did too, if he doesn't deliver the report or come, I will take it off line

SF: we have been working hard all week, and now I feel we are swinging in the wind

JS: I am not what PC can say

SF: I feel some frustration, and now I am not sure where we are going

PC: I am opening a private chat with sam

SF: It is hard to have faith in the process when we do something and then...

JS: SF you have good points and it is in the minutes
... An on going area of work
... Canvas

RS: What has happened with that I submitted the Opera guys, I have not heard for 3 weeks
... I would like to have this tied to drawing calls, would help authors
... We have concerns about implementation
... We have concerns from developers about implementation
... We tried CMN approach, he wants it just his way, this a late edition
... SF what do you think?

SF: I am not sure how much it will be to create image maps over canvas, it seems doable

RS: You need to rewrite all the AREA implementations, new methods and properties, clickable regions, it will be alot of work, CMN has raised this

SF: The addition of usemap which is simplier, but limited, then there is full blown, more capabilities

RS: We do not seem to be getting alot of progress

JS: We should try to clear up where we are going
... The caret drawing seems to be a preferred implementation, but we are sure if someone will do it, do not have enough spec?

RS: Ian wanted it one minute and then not the next minute
... I have a limited amount of time, so I need to know if we are going the caret API route

JS: I don't know if that will work, how to we unblock this, we have some missunderstandings

RS: Ian said write the defect and we will do it, but then he said he would not do, its frustrated with just going through Ian
... I am not sure what to do

JS: I don't if I have an answer for this, but will try to get something at next coordination call

RS: PC what is the next step?

PC: JS and the cohairs will need to take this off line, I understand you concerns, one side

JS: PC can help, but I want it communicated well, I am not looking for a solution today, but we need some

JF: We need an improvement on what is currently there in canvas

SteveF: If we have some improvement, then that might ....

JS: I am status qo for over a year, we put up proposals, I would like to see something on the current proposals
... I don't question that there needs to be accessibility for canvas, the process has been a discussion topic, no one is happy right now
... This goes all he way to the top in W3C management, we need to improve the process, good proposals are not going away, we need to figure out how to get unstuck

RS: At least for me If the chairs can get ARIA implementation in HTML5

PC: That sounds like a good idea to me
... It may not move as fast as you want, but at least you have comitter on the other side

RS: PC have you heard about the keyboard drag and drop from MS?

PC: it is in my inbox, it is pending

<paulc> Paul to provide background info on keyboard drag and drop from Microsoft.

<scribe> ACTION: paulc to Provide background keyboard support for drag and drop (3 weeks) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Provide background keyboard support for drag and drop (3 weeks) [on Paul Cotton - due 2010-09-09].

JS: Mike Smith are you also working on this?
... Are you there?
... We lost mike
... Since we are out of order, PC you asked about Bugzilla

Bugzilla Accessibility

PC: Laura has filed a bug about the decision policy, making bugzilla more accessible
... Laura and JS providing me with pointers I could not find

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0146.html

PC: We thought maybe upgrading would improve accessibility, but there are still outstanding issues
... I don't think my co-chairs will agree that issue is a blocker
... We need to take this to the W3C to see if they can come up with a solution

RS: Isn't this a mozilla project??

JS: It doesn't make sense to make this an HTML5 issue, it is a worthy topic
... The mozilla people will want us to use the latest version, before we can suggest accessibility enhancements
... We should log the issue and we need to take it somewhere else

<paulc> Isn't one option to send a message to the Systems team asking them to look into this?

JS: We need a path to improve accessibility, but where should this issue go, I don't think ou group should own it

RS: Who is responsible for W3C tools?

JS: I was hoping MC would be able to tell us?

<JF> (wondering if we will get back to Item #4: TF Recommendations Followup & Updates)

MC: We can't solve the problem of bugzilla accessibility, it is a W3C wide issue, I can take it to Hyper text, they may want other, we should file bugs with mzozilla
... The issue is about making smart decisions about the tools people use, in this case there are not comparable tools, it would be difficult to tell people not to use this tool
... But that is outside the mandate of this group

PC: I will take the bull by the horns, I am sending a message to the systems team
... I am going to copy the working group co-chairs, I usually get a response, I'll see what happens, the HCG would do what I am doing now

JS: this sounds like a reasonable course, we will report back to the task force

<kliehm> Current W3C Bugzilla version is 3.2.6, latest stable release at Mozilla is 3.6.3

Keyboard Access Requirements

JSL: I was hoping to discuss keyboard access, but GR is sick this week, can anyone else talk about this?

TF Recommendations Followup & Updates

JS: followup on our recommendation and disposition in the working group, we need to keep this close to our agenda, we have sent 7-8 and 4-5 have been processed many of us of the opinion, that longdesc was not handled as well as it could have been, and the issue has gone outside of W3C space, I am not sure what the next steps for longdesc, but we need a coordinated effort and we need to gather additional informatino
... One of the ways is a formal objection it will be more complicated, the first level of conversation, gathering of information on use cases, there is a wiki now

JF: The question is why was the page was frozen, how do we stop the ping-pong

JS: I don't know if we can raise this in the call

JF: If more information is forth coming, can we designate an editor who will document the issues and the proposals

JS: There should be a mechansim in W3C space

SF: laura collect information and someone else deleted the content from the page, now the page is frozen and new content cannot be added

PC: Do we know who is doing it?

SF: I know who it is and so do JS and JB

PC: I was not aware of the wiki war was going on

JS: I think we need to discuss a remedy

PC: Where is the page?
... I need to go

JS: We need to wrap up here

<JF> Late, but for Paul C: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/LongdescRetention

<kliehm> s/JS: TOPIC: Action Item Review/TOPIC: Action Item Review/

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: paulc to Provide background keyboard support for drag and drop (3 weeks) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/09/02 16:39:44 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 0.99)

Succeeded: s/#1066/#10066/
Succeeded: s/Canvus??/Canvas/
Succeeded: s/rewrtie/rewrite/
Succeeded: s/similar/simplier/
Succeeded: s/JF/SteveF/
Succeeded: s/Sounds like Hurricane Earl on the phone!//
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Succeeded: s/Bug sub team, did we formalize??/TOPIC: Subteam Reports/
Succeeded: s/MC: We made decisions, but not formally/JS: Bug sub team, did we formalize? MC: We made decisions, but not formally/
FAILED: s/JS: TOPIC: Action Item Review/TOPIC: Action Item Review/
Succeeded: s/JS: TOPIC: Action Item review/TOPIC: Actions Review/
Succeeded: s/Bug sub team, did we formalize?/JS: Bug sub team, did we formalize?/
Succeeded: s/JS: TOPIC: Subteam Reports/TOPIC: Subteam Reports/
Succeeded: s/TOPIC: bugzilla accessibility/TOPIC: Bugzilla Accessibility/
Succeeded: s/Jumping around abit/TOPIC: Keyboard Access Requirements/
Succeeded: s/JS: TOPIC: Keyboard Access Requirements/TOPIC: Keyboard Access Requirements/
Succeeded: s/JS: The other topic,/TOPIC: TF Recommendations Followup & Updates/
Succeeded: s/TF Recommendations Followup & Updates followup on our recommendation and disposition in the working group, we need to keep this close to our agenda, we have sent 7-8 and 4-5 have been processed/TF Recommendations Followup & Updates/
Succeeded: s/many of us of the opinion, that longdesc/ followup on our recommendation and disposition in the working group, we need to keep this close to our agenda, we have sent 7-8 and 4-5 have been processed many of us of the opinion, that longdesc/
Found Scribe: jongund
Found Scribe: jongund
Inferring ScribeNick: jongund
Default Present: Eric_Carlson, Janina, John_Foliot, kliehm, paulc, Michael_Cooper, jongund, Rich, Steve_Faulkner, Mike, Marco_Ranon
Present: Eric_Carlson Janina John_Foliot kliehm paulc Michael_Cooper jongund Rich Steve_Faulkner Mike Marco_Ranon
Got date from IRC log name: 02 Sep 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: paulc

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