cslye: what if you have something a font manager can use, but not a UA?

jdaggett: we're concerned about conformant UAs

cslye: we have this block specified, and as soon as anyone uses it, it out of spec

jdaggett: right, its not for UAs to use, its for font vendor to fingerprint

in

Julio: it should be changed, ye
... the language should be changed in S7P1

eriK: can the update notidication be done by file date and name in the metadata?

John: its the update url?

crossland: yes

<TabAtkins_> ACTION: jdaggett to Tighten the description of the private data block. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/18-webfonts-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Tighten the description of the private data block. [on John Daggett - due 2010-08-25].

ChrisL: <license url=""> is not THE LICENSE

cslye: the advantageof WOFF could attach the actualy license ot the font

ChrisL: <license> is thelicense of the WOFF, not the font

John: its a license for web use
... the font might have a license that says you can link on the web in secondarily licensed domains.
... the WOFF says what those domains are
... you dont want to write the font metadata each time you make a woff, you want on TTF and when you woff it apply metadata simpley

Vlad: when you have 2 documents that claim to be a license, the least restrictive one is what is enforcable, so you dont want anything that can be interpreted as a second license

cslye: you dont want ot say this is for the license of font

John: so do we want ot be clear its a license for the woff file?

cslye: no, some foundries may want to use it in a specific way for the contianed font, and others will want something else

adam: i see WOFF as a ZIP archive; we are making a packaging convention...

John: i prefer "license summary" as "license" implies a legal agreement

erik: what if your license is 2 lines?

adam: "licensing information"
... that could be full license, summary, url...

cslye: if adobe decides its risky to use it, we wont use it

John: in the spec we should not call it a license, "licensing information" is generic and covers an actual license and anything else

cslye: good topic for the panel

Vlad: 1 hour left

<Adam> Section 6, license block: change "The license for the font." to "The licensing information for the font."

action chrisl to Section 6, license block: change "The license for the font." to "The licensing information for the font."

<trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - Section 6, license block: change "The license for the font." to "The licensing information for the font." [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-08-25].

<ChrisL> ACTION: chris to write up a test suite plan [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/18-webfonts-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-27 - Write up a test suite plan [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-08-25].

Vlad: TPAC, CSS is obvious group, also SVG and XSL

jdaggett: what topics are?
... that determines how long we need

Vlad: topics is after checking for need to discuss

ChrisL: yes, need to ask if they willuse woff and to what extent

jdaggett: by november we hsould have a test suite so everyone in the room can look at the tests
... everyone of us
... it would be better to ask svg who will need to use woff to participate in our meeting at tpuc

ChrisL: people in this gruop could do ueful review of css3-fonts, similarly the other way

Adam: new q: could i change which font is used via js?

cslye: yes, like typekit's js loader doe

Adam: in FontLab 6 i'd like to have a feature for live preview in HTML
... without reloading the whole page

<ChrisL> XSL FO is meeting thu/fri

<ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/2010/11/TPAC/

Vlad: last item is implementation review

ChrisL: i asked adam if FL will support WOFF soon

Adam: certainly

Vlad: reference implementation?

ChrisL: status of woff at opera isnt yet clear

<erik> http://www.flickr.com/photos/letterror/4890870343/in/set-72157624711809860/

jdaggett: when the test suite is ready, we'll need a table of who passes what tests

ChrisL: and maintain it
... and once there are 2 green bars, we can move forward

Lorp: do any clauses prohibit usage on non-web platforms - like ebooks - where they pacakge text+woff

jdaggett: why do this?
... ah, download with a book

erik: woff compressino may be nicer than a raw font?

Lorp: licening might be related for web and ebooks

Vlad: epub can include fonts

Adam: adobe has a dont obfuscation technique like PDF-XML

cslye: i didnt know about that until this year, its old

si daniel: iTunes Album Format might bundle fonts

si daniels: if it uses @font-face doesn't mean font licensing for the web will cover such usage

<Vlad> Acknoledgements

ChrisL: ebook vendors have approached w3c

<Vlad> The WebFonts WG would like to thank Typecon organizers and SoTA for accommodating the attendees of the WG F2F meeting and providing meeting facilities, and would like to thank Adobe Systems and Christopher Slye for providing video projector for our use during the meeting.

jdaggett: comment on css3-font; we dont support TTC, and their typical uses are tricky and dont apply to web fonts context
... any ideas?

Adam: with css font stacking you can do the same thing
... you can slice your fonts into groups that way
... typical ttc allows many kanji and half width or full width or mono latin
... you can just do this with a css font stack

cslye: yes, but will composite fonts become more widely used and think they cant use it as is on the web, and will THEY think to use a cs font stack? or will they want omtehing more convenient?

John: WOFF is a container, having made some TTC i know they are a cmoplicated way to get a small space saving...

Adam: css is a composite format mechanism; unicode ranges, a way of pulling it all together

John: you coul dhave a composite font format with WOFF payloads

Vlad: WOFF2 could accomodate composite fonts

John: composite fonts is just XML wrapping around fonts

Adam: you can have it as one piece of woff data, like the metadata block, and then chunk ALL the tables together
... the CWOFF

Vlad: if you have text in arabic and latin, you want to keep uing the numerals defined in the arabic font

John: european punctuation is used all over the world
... chars in the devanagri block are meant to be used in other indic script

s

Adam: common locale directory; exemplar section of unicode.org

<John> Big thanks to Dave and Tab for scribing.

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: crossland
Inferring Scribes: crossland

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.

Present: Vlad Chris JDaggett Sylvain Christopher John Lurence Dave Adam Sergei Julio Tab Tal Erik

WARNING: No date found!  Assuming today.  (Hint: Specify
the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.)
Or specify the date like this:
<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/08/18-webfonts-minutes.html
People with action items: chris jdaggett

WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>.

Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of 
new discussion topics or agenda items, such as:
<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report


WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)