See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: janina
sf: We need change proposal
review by Rich and Cynthia, then
... there are a few sections that need completion following a discussion among us.
... Let's start with updated spec doc -- Made mapping changes from notes and memory -- Are they OK?
... Tried to include everything that had been cited as ommited.
cs: What about merging the tables?
sf: First table supposed to semantics not overwritable
cs: Seems if we had one big table, it would meet Maciej's complaint that he couldn't find something.
sf: looking at <aname= --
without an href -- why a restriction?
... Also added caption. Doesn't seem it should be restricted
cs: Text from caption might go into the name, and we should have ARIA on it because someone could make it clickable.
sf: put norole for area because it's not rendered
cs: area without rhref valid?
cs: what if tabindex?
sf: don't know
cs: We should treat like span anything without a reason why it shouldn't be overwritten
rs: Chaas wants to map area on
top of canvas, so why not treat like a div?
... Is it overwritable?
<Stevef> If the area element has no href attribute, then the area represented by the element cannot be selected, and the alt attribute must be omitted.
sf: No, because not rendered and has no href
cs: So how is an area without
... Can live with either way.
... Prefer default to everything allowed.
... If applied to canvas, will need aria role
... Put in "elements without restrictions?"
sf: So do we agree to a single table?
cs: Yes, will be easier to read.
rs: Yes, as long as it's clear what applies where.
sf: Looking now at hgroup
... Overides? Which?
cs: Anything. It's a span
... My default answer, I suspect.
sf: But then we need to say why.
cs: Unless there's a good reason to limit, don't limit.
sf: th element, no column or row
... Is it inconsistent with our table guidance?
cs: But people repurpose them.
sf: difference between changed
and additional semantics.
... This is a clearly defined a11y element to provide info about data tables
cs: existed before html had a11y ...
sf: But when it's overwritten then you no longer provide a11y info about the table
cs: But then what do you do when
someone puts a onclick on th--which is common, to sort for
... I could wish aria were additive and not substitutional ...
sf: Concerned we shouldn't allow overwrite to turn th into a button, for instance
cs: but that's what people do
sf: OK, will go with the group
consensus, but I can't defend it.
... So, what can they be overwritten with?
rs: We don't prohibit now, right?
[Steve not happy with this ...]
sf: Most of this has been stable for months ... but now we're saying something different
rs: We said we're reviewing the whole thing
sf: the parts that are changed
cs: Think sf wants help on recent changes ...
sf: So what role allowed on table?
cs: widgets and presentation, not para
sf: But that's what I have!
rs: Take from the other direction, what roles should it not support?
cs: We need to be consistent in our logic.
sf: By that token we should treat href and all struct the same ...
cs: If we can come up with a rule for these -- It's the one-off's that will get us turned down
sf: So, we're talking about
incorrect html use, is it better with aria addition, or
... So, we're talking about incorrect html use, is it better with aria addition, or not?[group going through items]
... People, please review the entire proposal and provide comments, changes, additions ...
cs: Can I send you a word doc?
... We didn't finish, so will need another meeting.
... Don't know what to do with hgroup ...
cs: Heading, and refs inside presentation
sf: so now this is new
cs: There are two things here, logically it should function like a heading
sf: But new elements have a history of being misused, so it could be argued we should support best practice.
cs: If aria2 allows us to be additive, we will need to make sure we can add that to HTML5.
sf: Cynthia, can provide feedback?
rs: Yes, but not tonight
rrsagent make log public
rrsagent make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Default Present: Janina, [Microsoft], Rich Present: Janina [Microsoft] Rich WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 17 Aug 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/08/17-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]