21 Jul 2010

See also: IRC log




<plinss_> rrsagent make logs public

<arronei> I will be on the call in about 10 minutes if you could hold a little for the test suite update till I am on that would be great.

<scribe> scribenick: szilles

<szilles> 1. Republish 2007 Snapshot, MQ CR

<szilles> BB: no objection to re-publishing

<szilles> Resolved: Publish http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/ED-css3-mediaqueries-20100714/

<ChrisL> In media queries, is it still true that "HTML has not yet been normatively updated to use media queries in the media attribute."?

Review sections 2 and 3 of MQ

<ChrisL> thought html5 had been updated to use media queries

Resolution above was for Snapshot not MQ, MQ is now topic of discussion

<ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/common-microsyntaxes.html#mq

PL: Everythng else in MQ refers to HTML4

CL: not much point in refering to HTML 4.01 at this point

<dbaron> If the reference is explaining the history, it should probably refer to the spec that was there at the time.

EE: There is no reason to have a forward reference to HTML5

CL: Since the reference is non normative, there is no reason not to update the references to HTML5 to be more timely

DB: the references to HTML4 are mostly indicating the history of the development of the MQ spec

BB: HTML5 is only a draft so we cannot assert that it is done and will not change.

CL: we could say that "the current draft of HTML5 has added ..."

Action (Anna): fix the reference to HTML5 as above

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (Anne)

<fantasai> RESOLVED: Publish mediaqueries after updating note about media queries in HTML to point to HTMl5

Resolved: Publish MQ (URL above) with change suggested by CL

Resolved: Change "A minimum of another six months of the CR period must elapse" to the minimum CR period

EE: I believe the test suite exists it just needs to be posted

BB: Pub Rules require some date

CL: four weeks is a reasonable time; it would not constrain us and the test cases still need to be posted

Test Suite

AE: Sent one mail on the likely invalid tests; need people to look at to see if they agree
... About to send test that do not pass in any browser; need people to check the testss in their area of responsibility
... Would love to have responses ideally by next phone call, but at least by the call in two weeks.

PL: Has anyone been working on their implementation reports?

AE: is there a template for the report?

EE: not, but I could make one if we agree on what it should have

AE and EE: to talk offline to agree on the format for the report

PL: Is the test harness that was developed still functional?

EE: not at all sure; I have not looked at it.

PL: is it worth spending some time to get that running again; it was designed to gather statistic and be a start to an implementation report

EE to contact Tab for help on this; PL can help and contact Matt Bonner

Open Issues:

<plinss_> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-110

Issue 110

DB: I believe Boris has objected (threatening formally) to this proposal
... The objection is that there is currently interoperable behavior
... The behavior is that abs pos'd elements generate cells

EE: the problem is that the number of cells generated is somewhat strange
... I cannot think of any other place where moving an abs pos element out of normal flow generates normal flow content
... the choices seems to be between defining the behavior the way authors would want it or the way that implementers would want it

SZ: How common is having an abs pos element as the having a abs pos element as the direct content of a table cell or equivalent situations?
... Is this enough of an edge case; is it sufficiently uncommon that leaving the existing behavior is OK if not really desirable

PL: That is my feeling

EE: There is nothing in the spec that would cause an abs pos element to have an affect on normal flow
... But, in this one case, the notion of a "placeholder" was introduced to describe the effect that was happening in tables

<fantasai> But all the browser implementations implement abspos by introducing a "placeholder" in their formatting structure

<fantasai> In most cases, this placeholder is not detectable

<fantasai> but in table box generation it is detectable

<fantasai> And so bz is saying to codify its existence, at least in this one case where it is detectable

<fantasai> because all implementations chose to implement abspos this way and we have interop on it

<fantasai> even though it makes no sense from the spec's point of view

PL: Does anyone have an objection to BZ's proposal

EE: I would like more input from the other implementers as to which way they would like to go

<Bert> Is it the case that <tr><td psoition:absolute>a <td>b <td>c looks the same as <tr><td>b <td>c ?

CL: Other implementers, like Prince?

<fantasai> Bert: <tr><td>a<td position:absolute>b<td>c</tr>

<fantasai> Bert: looks the same as <tr><td>a<td><td>c</tr>

PL: Should this case in fact be codified or should it just be left undefined?

<fantasai> Bert: Also, <tr><td>a<td position:absolute>b<td position:absolute>c<td>d</tr> looks the same as the above,too

CL: That depends on whether the other implemetations are willing to change; if not we would have to leave it undefined.

DB: It may be the case that other implementations do not even implement this part of the spec.

SZ: we need to send a note to the implementers we are aware of and ask which proposals they can live (and would be willing to change to)

<fantasai> ACTION: fantasai to Write proposal to deal with abspos in table box generation according to bz's proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/21-CSS-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-246 - Write proposal to deal with abspos in table box generation according to bz's proposal [on Elika Etemad - due 2010-07-28].

action (EE): Add BZ's abs pos proposal to the proposal that I have already published

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (EE)

<plinss_> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-138

Issue 138

PL: this is awaiting feedback from Alex

SG: Alex thought the proposal was reasonable

<dbaron> I don't see issue 138 on the issues list.

<plinss_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jul/0329.html

EE: I recall the float should move with rel pos of the containing block

<fantasai> dbaron, try force-reloading. For some reason the issues list is being weird

<dbaron> fantasai, reload woked

DB: Tab has revised the proposal

Question about the "contained in the block box" should not that be contained in the in-line block

<dbaron> also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jul/0331.html

DB: there are two messages in the thread to that effect

<dbaron> I'm happy with the revised proposal.

DB: I am happy with the revised proposal

<smfr> me too

BB: it describes what I expect so I am happy too

Resolved: Proposal as modified by the two message is accepted

Meeting adjourns at 10 PDT

<fantasai> RRSAgent: make minutes

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: fantasai to Write proposal to deal with abspos in table box generation according to bz's proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/21-CSS-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/07/21 17:02:57 $

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Got date from IRC log name: 21 Jul 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/07/21-CSS-minutes.html
People with action items: fantasai

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