W3C

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

20 Jul 2010

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, anthony, +1.919.824.aabb, tav, shepazu, [Microsoft]
Regrets
CL
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
pdengler

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 20 July 2010

<shepazu> minutes

<ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0047.html + http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0048.html

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Paris-2010-F2F

<ed> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/f2fParis2010/

<ed> ACTION: ed to fix broken images in 1.1F2/images (commit with -kb flag) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2825 - Fix broken images in 1.1F2/images (commit with -kb flag) [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].

SVG 1.1F2 LC comments

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0042.html

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0043.html

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0045.html

<scribe> scribenick: pdengler

pdengler: CSS defined properties (e.g. 'font-size') must follow CSS syntax and thus require units for non-zero <length> values. See 6.1 for a list of CSS defined properties
... This is the proposed change of language correct?

ed: Not a problem going to a property for x and y

shepazu: When using attributes use SVG unit values, when using CSS use unit values

ed: not sure this is what browers do

Tav: Not sure if this is what we are saying

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/types-basic-02-f.svg

shepazu: Need to coordinate w/ CSS working group
... Take HTML approach that CSS working group needs to reasses the issue
... Need to do with the Fx task force
... Tooling and existing content does styling with unitless values.

<scribe> ACTION: shezpazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - shezpazu

<scribe> ACTION: shepazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2826 - Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties [on Doug Schepers - due 2010-07-27].

ed: Any other last call items; perhaps one or twomore

<ed> ISSUE-2353

ed: Wasn't clear from the description what the red-stroked rectangles were suppose to describe

<scribe> ACTION: to ed Make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to

<scribe> ACTION: ed To make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2827 - Make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].

ed: With no more last call items for today we will move on to other issues
... Topic : Default sizing of SVG in HTML5

shepazu: If default size is 100% 100%, if there is a view box, you can infer size

ed: not necessarily size
... viewbox infers ratio, not size
... It would help to have an example of what you expect and what you get
... We should have samples in the test suite

pdengler: They are there, but they are not necessarily complicated enough

<scribe> ACTION: pdengler to create more sophisticated test cases around <image> sizing and viewBox [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2828 - Create more sophisticated test cases around <image> sizing and viewBox [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].

pdengler: When you have a simple <svg><circle...> the default size is 300px,150px as last fall back

ed: Will resolve differently depending on outer container

shepazu: Need to have default intrinsic height in 2.0

<scribe> ACTION: patd to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - patd

<scribe> ACTION: pdengler to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2829 - Investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5 [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].

DrawImage in <cavas>

shepazu: For canvas, since SVG is a "vector", I think the drawImage should take a width and height parameter

ed: It does take a width and height, but it doesn't always have them available

shepazu: In the case where there isn't a width and height, we need to determine what to do

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0074.html

shepazu: If it has a width and height, use the width and height of the viewBox in pixels

ed: Not sure this is a great idea
... If you don't pass a width and height when you call drawImage, the SVG image needs to be drawn into an area, you could use the <canvas> width and height
... Then the underlying viewBox could still be used for the coordinate system
... We have experimental code dealing with this which probably needs further fixing

pdengler: I like this.

ed: We should get this back to the HTML/Canvas effort

<scribe> ACTION: pdengler to get to HTML5 working group <canvas> about using canvas width and height for SVG width and height [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2830 - Get to HTML5 working group <canvas> about using canvas width and height for SVG width and height [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].

ed: We need to get jwatt's opinion as well

pdengler: I will use this as a first poposal and be prepared to back it out of Jonothan does not like it

load events on svg elements

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0070.html

<ed> ISSUE-2254?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2254 -- Consider changing which elements have load dispatched to them -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2254

ed: What we concluded that loadevents on elements that have external resources; for other elements we couldn't care less; but that's not what the spec says
... And there is at least one test that checks for these

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0073.html

<scribe> ACTION: to pdengler Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action10]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to

<scribe> ACTION:pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action11]

<trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

<scribe> ACTION:pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action12]

<trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

<scribe> ACTION: pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action13]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2831 - Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].

ie9 clarification issues

<scribe> Topic : Markers and styles at point of reference

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0066.html

pdengler: We should be using markers styled at the point of reference

shepazu: There is an issue that there is a lot of content out there that already follows this
... The way we talked about it, was to have a different method for styling the markers

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-marker-02-f.svg

pdengler: Looking at this test http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlEmbed/painting-marker-02-f.html

<ed> <marker id=foo><rect fill="currentColor"></marker> <line marker-start="url(#foo)" color="blue"/>

shepazu: unforutnately, the conceptual model that a marker was not a <use>
... Tried a number of ways to change fill/stroke of markers
... As a forward change in SVG 2.0, but we could add this in one of two ways;
... Keep it backward compatible with marker-fill/marker-stroke; this would support both use cases
... Another way to do it is to inherit the fill and stroke of it's referencing parent

Tav: You can't just inherit the stroke of the parent

shepazu: most content defines the style for the marker.
... you don't get to override this. It's not as much as an issue as I thought, as existing content is already defining stroke/stroke-width colors

<ed> ok, we can forget the marker + color example i pasted earlier, doesn't work :)

shepazu: So we could redefine it for SVG 2.0; but for the author is best for us define marker specifc properties

<scribe> ACTION: ed: to investigate markers and where and when to apply style [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action14]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2832 - Investigate markers and where and when to apply style [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].

Tav: Suppose there is an arrow. The normal thing to do would be to have the arrow head to inherit the stroke-color of the path for the fill of the marker

shepazu: How do we achieve that effect?
... Most of the time, authors are using the path without a fill

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: ed to fix broken images in 1.1F2/images (commit with -kb flag) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: ed To make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: ed: to investigate markers and where and when to apply style [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action14]
[NEW] ACTION: patd to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action11]
[NEW] ACTION: pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: pdengler to create more sophisticated test cases around <image> sizing and viewBox [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: pdengler to get to HTML5 working group <canvas> about using canvas width and height for SVG width and height [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: pdengler to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: shepazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: shezpazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: to ed Make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: to pdengler Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action10]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/07/20 21:45:21 $

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: pdengler
Inferring Scribes: pdengler
Default Present: ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, anthony, +1.919.824.aabb, tav, shepazu, [Microsoft]
Present: ed +33.9.53.77.aaaa anthony +1.919.824.aabb tav shepazu [Microsoft]
Regrets: CL

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 20 Jul 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: ed make modification patd pdengler shepazu shezpazu to

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