<trackbot> Date: 30 June 2010

<Steven> scribe: nick

<Steven> scribenick: nick

<pfennell> I'll be away from IRC for the duration of the call.

Announcements

Steven: There is a new open source XForms implementation from Nokia http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0007.html

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2010/xforms11-qr.html

Steven: It looks good and is small, they praise it for XForms being small to implement
... Is rewriting XForms 1.1 Quick Reference
... I improved it a lot

Nick: Is it easy to get it in the 'official' quick reference of w3c

Steven: I will look into it

mediatype

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#ui-output-mediatype http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#ui-upload-mediatype

Steven: I hadn't spotted before that we have two different mediatype elements
... They are so similar that I'm assuming that it is an oversight at our side that we have two, and I think we could have just one and use it in both places
... The output has a value attribute (this is the only difference)

Nick: The difference is that we use the mediatype in the upload to store the mediatype, and in output it is read

John: This is an XForms 1.0 construct the child element of the mediatype attribute is for the form control to store the media type
... The mediatype attribute and child don't serve the same job
... The attribute is used to drive what media types can be selected, the element defines the place where the effective media type is stored

Steven: It is difficult for authors if the same element has different attributes and/or behavior

John: We can have two mediatype child elements one with ref that does the current behavior and one with value in which it replaces the attribute on the upload control

Nick: For output we only need one mediatype
... we allow ref and value on that one, and only one is used

John: OK, then I don't know if it makes it more clear
... You have the same for case in toggle and switch
... In that case you have a local element definition (the same should be true for mediatype)

Steven: same holds for resource and value elements, maybe I shouldn't worry about it

and let context handle it.

xforms-binding-exception

<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0005.html

<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0006.html

John: Historical an XForms processor with an XPath processor, when the XPath processor raises an exception we raise an exception, in all other cases it is a valid expression
... when a result can be computed no xforms-compute-exception nor a xforms-bind-exception is sent

Steven: Wherever the XPath 1.0 spec says "it is an error" an xforms-compute-exception or an xforms-bind-exception should be sent

John: They don't say that the expression should be syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF

for XPath 2.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath20/#errors

John: in XForms the processor dies when an binding-exception or compute-exception is raised

Steven: The wrong number of parameters will cause this?

John: Correct

Steven: an binding-exception or compute-exception is raised when the XPath 1.0 says "it is an error" or if the expression isn't syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/2009/10/REC-xforms-20091020-errata-20091020.html

<scribe> ACTION: JOHN to update the errata document so it it is more clear on an binding-exception or compute-exception (they are raised when the XPath 1.0 says "it is an error" or if the expression isn't syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-forms-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - JOHN

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

@iterate

<Steven> I think we need Erik here to discuss this

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/2009/10/REC-xforms-20091020-errata-20091020.html

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to respond to Aaron on binding-exception or compute-exception (they are raised when the XPath 1.0 says "it is an error" or if the expression isn't syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0005.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-forms-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-623 - Respond to Aaron on binding-exception or compute-exception (they are raised when the XPath 1.0 says "it is an error" or if the expression isn't syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0005.html [on Steven Pemberton - due 2010-07-07].

John: Leaving it unspecified of what happens when you iterate over deleted nodes

Node creation functions

<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2010Apr/0024.html

Nick: We first need to discuss what happens when you bind UI controls to nodes that aren't in the instance

Steven: When a control binds to nothing the control is hidden because it isn't relevant, on the other hand we have the lazy authoring

Nick: The node creation functions fulfil more use cases

Steven: Yes they solve more, you need to do a lot currently to insert an attribute
... We definitely think more on making XForms more author friendly

John: We could also define where you could call those functions, they are very useful in actions and we could say for now that they will result in a compute-exception when used in a UI binding

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: nick
Found ScribeNick: nick
Default Present: [IBM], Steven, wiecha, +44.782.483.aaaa, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, pfennell, +1.250.294.aabb, John_Boyer
Present: [IBM] Steven wiecha +44.782.483.aaaa Nick_van_den_Bleeken pfennell +1.250.294.aabb John_Boyer
Regrets: Leigh Uli Alain
Found Date: 30 Jun 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-forms-minutes.html
People with action items: john steven