W3C

XML Security Working Group Teleconference

29 Jun 2010

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Frederick_Hirsch, Chris_Solc, Meiko_Jensen, Scott_Cantor, Cynthia_Martin, Hal_Lockhart, Magnus_Nystrom, Bruce_Rich, Pratik_Datta, Gerald_Edgar
Regrets
Brian_LaMacchia, Shivaram_Mysore, Ed_Simon, Thomas_Roessler
Chair
Frederick_Hirsch
Scribe
Frederick_Hirsch

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 29 June 2010

<scribe> ACTION: tlr to copy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec/2010Jun/att-0007/minutes-2010-06-22.html to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/22-xmlsec-minutes.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-601 - Copy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec/2010Jun/att-0007/minutes-2010-06-22.html to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/22-xmlsec-minutes.html [on Thomas Roessler - due 2010-07-06].

Administrative

<Cynthia> I will be available next week

<mjensen> I won't be available next week

<scantor> I should be

<scribe> ScribeNick: fjh

<scribe> Scribe: Frederick_Hirsch

call on the 6th, no call on the 13th

"Digital Signatures for Widgets" was published as W3C Candidate Recommendation, 24 June 2010

http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/CR-widgets-digsig-20100624/

TPAC registration open (XML Security F2F 1-2 November 2010)

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec/2010Jun/0004.html

ACTION-592?

<trackbot> ACTION-592 -- Thomas Roessler to set up dial-in v attendance questionnaire for TPAC 2010 -- due 2010-06-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/592

Minutes

Approve 22 June 2010 minutes

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec/2010Jun/att-0007/minutes-2010-06-22.html

RESOLUTION: Minutes from 22 June 2010 approved.

Elliptic Curve Status

No W3C Team update expected until 6 July meeting.

The WG noted that this issue has been open for a long time, and resolution could help increase participation in interop and other work.

Last Call Comments

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0003.html

defer for tlr

ACTION-585?

<trackbot> ACTION-585 -- Thomas Roessler to review proposal for LC-2387 -- due 2010-07-07 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/585

Canonical XML 2.0, Curies

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0034.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0040.html

same concerns as with QNames

scantor: can incorporate Curies into proposal

C14N2 actions

ACTION-576?

<trackbot> ACTION-576 -- Pratik Datta to add "high performance profile" to c14n2 -- due 2010-06-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/576

ACTION-594?

<trackbot> ACTION-594 -- Scott Cantor to write detailed proposal, not including xsi:type, based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0020.html -- due 2010-06-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/594

ACTION-597?

<trackbot> ACTION-597 -- Pratik Datta to add proposed text to draft -- due 2010-06-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/597

<scantor> very detailed

<scribe> ACTION: fjh to figure out what ACTION-597 is [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-602 - to figure out what ACTION-597 is [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-07-06].

Profiles

scantor: grouping options might help with addressing use case

fjh: can treat as informational, explain how parameters can be used to address use cases

hal: would it help with interop to define a small number of cases, to avoid combinatorial explosion

scantor: does W3 allow mandatory profile that requires optional parameters
... profile useful for conformance testing and interop

fjh: do not need mechanism in XML to define profiles, but can define in specification for conformance

hal: agree, and want to limit options

pdatta: +1
... asks if we should mark parameters as MUST or OPTIONAL

proposed RESOLUTION: WG agrees that profiles do not need to be expressed in markup, but should be dealt with in conformance clauses

RESOLUTION: WG agrees that profiles do not need to be expressed in markup, but should be dealt with in conformance clauses

C14N2 whitespace

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0060.html

meiko: problem with adjacent text nodes
... cannot distinguish two text nodes due to parser versus to two from XPath selections.
... thus some whitespace might remain even though it could have been trimmed

<scantor> I thought we precluded text node selection

pdatta: our XPath profile does not allow selection of text nodes

meiko: will need to look at this
... what about use cases involving text

scantor: need to simplify and limit use cases for adoption
... excluded for other reasons

pdatta: trimming and canonicalization can be done simultaneously

hal: not sure of value of use case with text value without any context

meiko: good for reuse

fjh: questions if we are reopening resolved issue?

hal: value without context is not meaningful
... is 136 a random number, not meaningful, a stream of random numbers is

URIs (prefix rewriting, ACTION-579)

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0044.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0050.html

proposed RESOLUTION: accept Pratik proposal regarding URI and US-ASCII encoding

RESOLUTION: accept Pratik proposal regarding URI and US-ASCII encoding

XML Signature 2.0 Schema

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0013.html

ACTION-600?

<trackbot> ACTION-600 -- Thomas Roessler to draft proposal of how update to 1.0 schema will work practically for existing implementations -- due 2010-06-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/600

XML Signature 2.0 Actions

ACTION-590?

<trackbot> ACTION-590 -- Pratik Datta to create separate XPath profile document (from XML Signature 2.0) -- due 2010-06-08 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/590

ACTION-589?

<trackbot> ACTION-589 -- Pratik Datta to create 2.0 schema with X509IssuerSerial change -- due 2010-06-08 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/589

Best Practices

ACTION-586?

<trackbot> ACTION-586 -- Meiko Jensen to draft text about XPath risks for BP document -- due 2010-06-08 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/586

meiko: some of this material is in the best practices, but could be clearer

<mjensen> best practices case 2.2.2

<mjensen> already contains the XPath warning I proposed

<mjensen> but in weaker wording

<mjensen> I'd like to investigate more deeply...

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-bestpractices/#id35830424

meiko: recommended as treating empty selection as fault, in earlier discussion had result might be useful to have signature that needs to select nothing, absence of element
... need to be consistent

pdatta: suggests generalization, keep expected length of canonicalized data

scantor: best practice overstates situation, recommends modifying the best practice to indicate to be aware of risk

issue: update wording of best practice in 2.2.2 since empty result could be intentional, e.g. sign element even if missing. text to modify "In this case there is XPath transform, which evaluates to zero or false for every node, so it ends up selecting nothing. So even though the signature seems to sign the Approval, it actually doesn't. The application should reject this document."

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-207 - Update wording of best practice in 2.2.2 since empty result could be intentional, e.g. sign element even if missing. text to modify "In this case there is XPath transform, which evaluates to zero or false for every node, so it ends up selecting nothing. So even though the signature seems to sign the Approval, it actually doesn't. The application should reject this document." ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2008

<scribe> ACTION: fjh to update best practice for ISSUE-207 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-603 - Update best practice for ISSUE-207 [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-07-06].

ISSUE-207: case of check what is signed, can be appropriate for it to be nothing

<trackbot> ISSUE-207 Update wording of best practice in 2.2.2 since empty result could be intentional, e.g. sign element even if missing. text to modify "In this case there is XPath transform, which evaluates to zero or false for every node, so it ends up selecting nothing. S notes added

Test Cases and Interop

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0055.html

scantor: some of the test cases are out of date regarding syntax or missing ecc test cases

ACTION-280?

<trackbot> ACTION-280 -- Magnus Nyström to produce test cases for derived keys -- due 2009-05-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/280

ACTION-411?

<trackbot> ACTION-411 -- Pratik Datta to perform measurement related to transform octet conversion -- due 2010-06-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/411

ACTION-540?

<trackbot> ACTION-540 -- Frederick Hirsch to ask Makoto regarding implementations and interop -- due 2010-03-09 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/540

ACTION-552?

<trackbot> ACTION-552 -- Frederick Hirsch to ask on list about interop and implemention plans for 1.1 features, including encryption and also 2.0 -- due 2010-04-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/552

Additional Actions

ACTION-538?

<trackbot> ACTION-538 -- Meiko Jensen to provide proposal related to namespace wrapping attacks -- due 2010-03-09 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/538

need to update action to indicate that this is waiting on XPath profile

ACTION-553?

<trackbot> ACTION-553 -- Thomas Roessler to contact implementers known from hmac affair -- due 2010-06-30 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/553

ACTION-581?

<trackbot> ACTION-581 -- Scott Cantor to make proposal around IDness of attributes -- due 2010-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/actions/581

scantor: ids not often recognized as IDs if have special name or DTD, hence xml:id
... since xml:id not widely used yet, allow to specify what will be treated as ids in Dom
... data typing proposal, embedded within signature
... make DOM calls to establish uniqueness

meiko: many DOM parsers don't care if unique, use latest, cannot rely on uniqueness of ids

scantor: enables avoiding use of XPath
... selection syntax still allows fragment references, id based references

Type="...xml" : Select complete XML documents, or XML fragments.

http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-core-20/#sec-Selection-2.0

csolc: concern about customers that use 3rd party DOM

scantor: DOM3 allows id setting as part of the standard
... need to be clear how to reference items

general support for Scott's approach, but WG would like to see more detail in the proposal

Issue Review

ISSUE-160?

<trackbot> ISSUE-160 -- Define URI for Canonical XML 2.0, add section to Signature 2.0 defining Canonical XML 2.0 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/160

issue-160 closed

<trackbot> ISSUE-160 Define URI for Canonical XML 2.0, add section to Signature 2.0 defining Canonical XML 2.0 closed

ISSUE-189?

<trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- RNG Schemas needed for XML Encryption 1.1 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/189

ISSUE-189 closed

<trackbot> ISSUE-189 RNG Schemas needed for XML Encryption 1.1 closed

<scantor> (for the minutes, the 2.0 draft fdoes allow referencing an ID in a URI in the Selection element)

ISSUE-188?

<trackbot> ISSUE-188 -- Agreement referenced in XML Signature 1.1 but definition not clear -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/188

ISSUE-188 closed

<trackbot> ISSUE-188 Agreement referenced in XML Signature 1.1 but definition not clear closed

ISSUE-190?

<trackbot> ISSUE-190 -- Two different sha384 URIs -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/190

ISSUE-190 closed

<trackbot> ISSUE-190 Two different sha384 URIs closed

ISSUE-195?

<trackbot> ISSUE-195 -- Camelli a cipher -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/195

ISSUE-195 closed

<trackbot> ISSUE-195 Camelli a cipher closed

ISSUE-170?

<trackbot> ISSUE-170 -- Should we recomend signing namespaces as part of Best Practice 12 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/170

scantor: this would require a complete rework of xml signature

fjh: why have this as an open issue

scantor: people need to convince themselves about the risks

related to namespace wrapping attack.

<Cynthia> +

ISSUE-170: dependency on ACTION-538

<trackbot> ISSUE-170 Should we recomend signing namespaces as part of Best Practice 12 notes added

hal: include namespace identifier under signature, yes

scantor: output in c14n output might not be clear

<scribe> ACTION: hal to propose change for best practices for ISSUE-170 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-604 - Propose change for best practices for ISSUE-170 [on Hal Lockhart - due 2010-07-06].

ISSUE-196?

<trackbot> ISSUE-196 -- Which URI to use for serialization parameter for XML and EXI in C14N2 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/196

issue-196 closed

<trackbot> ISSUE-196 Which URI to use for serialization parameter for XML and EXI in C14N2 closed

update with corresponding action

ISSUE-200?

<trackbot> ISSUE-200 -- Which references are normative vs informative for C14N2 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/200

action pdatta to update references for C14N2, placing into normative vs informative to resolve ISSUE-200

<trackbot> Created ACTION-605 - Update references for C14N2, placing into normative vs informative to resolve ISSUE-200 [on Pratik Datta - due 2010-07-06].

ISSUE-180?

<trackbot> ISSUE-180 -- Section 8 identifies Joseph Reagle as the contact for the XML Encryption media type. This needs to be updated, perhaps to a generic identity? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/180

Update Issues with status (after call)

ISSUE-180: resolved in http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Drafts/xmlenc-core-11/Overview.html#sec-MediaType , uses World Wide Web Consortium <web-human at w3.org>

<trackbot> ISSUE-180 Section 8 identifies Joseph Reagle as the contact for the XML Encryption media type. This needs to be updated, perhaps to a generic identity? notes added

ISSUE-180 closed

<trackbot> ISSUE-180 Section 8 identifies Joseph Reagle as the contact for the XML Encryption media type. This needs to be updated, perhaps to a generic identity? closed

ISSUE-196: resolved, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Jun/0045.html for ACTION-561

<trackbot> ISSUE-196 Which URI to use for serialization parameter for XML and EXI in C14N2 notes added

ISSUE-196 closed

<trackbot> ISSUE-196 Which URI to use for serialization parameter for XML and EXI in C14N2 closed

ISSUE-195: resolved, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Apr/0006.html

<trackbot> ISSUE-195 Camelli a cipher notes added

ISSUE-195: see also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010Apr/0001.html for resolution, for ISSUE-195 and ISSUE-196

<trackbot> ISSUE-195 Camelli a cipher notes added

issue-195?

<trackbot> ISSUE-195 -- Camelli a cipher -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/195

ISSUE-190: resolution at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010May/0052.html

<trackbot> ISSUE-190 Two different sha384 URIs notes added

ISSUE-190: resolution confirmation at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010May/0053.html

<trackbot> ISSUE-190 Two different sha384 URIs notes added

ISSUE-188: resolved, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec/2010May/0050.html

<trackbot> ISSUE-188 Agreement referenced in XML Signature 1.1 but definition not clear notes added

ISSUE-189: resolved, schemas added to RNG Schema document, see http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Drafts/xmlsec-rngschema/Overview.html#sec-Encryption11-rngSchema

<trackbot> ISSUE-189 RNG Schemas needed for XML Encryption 1.1 notes added

ISSUE-160: resolved, see http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/Drafts/c14n-20/#sec-Use . Not listed in XML Signature 2.0?

<trackbot> ISSUE-160 Define URI for Canonical XML 2.0, add section to Signature 2.0 defining Canonical XML 2.0 notes added

ISSUE-160: open

<trackbot> ISSUE-160 Define URI for Canonical XML 2.0, add section to Signature 2.0 defining Canonical XML 2.0 notes added

ISSUE-160 reopen

ISSUE-160 may need to be open until URI is also listed in Signature 2.0.

ISSUE: list 2.0 algorithms in algorithms cross-reference

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-208 - List 2.0 algorithms in algorithms cross-reference ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2008/xmlsec/track/issues/208/edit .

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: fjh to figure out what ACTION-597 is [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: fjh to update best practice for ISSUE-207 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: hal to propose change for best practices for ISSUE-170 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: tlr to copy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec/2010Jun/att-0007/minutes-2010-06-22.html to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/22-xmlsec-minutes.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action01]
 
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$Date: 2010/07/26 08:21:52 $