See also: IRC log
<richardschwerdtfe> I am on folks
<richardschwerdtfe> not hearing anything
<scribe> scribe: janina
We're looking at Cynthia's documents ...
cyns: focus on commands and
... this area of the html5 spec seems stable. not changed much in a year
... seems 'command' is 'menuitem'
now looking at second table ...
rich: within a toolbar?
cyns: within a menu tag
rich: separators between them?
... we currently don't support groups within menus, but ...
cyns: we should do something with this
rich: our recent discussion re groups with a toolbar would be similar
cyns: aria toolbars are nestable?
... too many people complained about grouping within toolbar
cyns: html5 also supports nested menus
rich: how does one nav?
cyns: like file
rich: so like 'haspopup'
cyns: i'll look at haspopup
... seems like having elements whose role changes based on context is different from anything we've had before, need to check with ie team on that
... not bad, just new
rich: i looked at new control, see lots for browsers to do
cyns: also labels and legends
... html doesn't have href as command -- see button and link as interchangeable
... my questions
... why inputimage not there, input button, link, why not there
cyns: not sure why we need states, attributes plus facets?
cyns: i don't understand it
... seems facet is more or less attribute, and state is attribute value, but not clear mapping
... all of this re-raises whether we map to aria and rely on aria to map OS a11y apis, or
... whether we map directly to a11y apis. Seems sometimes results might be different
rich: seems we should start funneling questions to html-wg now, not wait
cyns: the more i look at facets,
the more i think we may need direct mappings to a11y apis
... ex: icon for a menu item
rich: we need that?
cyns: it's in the spec
rich: not just the text for that icon?
cyns: think it may be easier to map to uia than to aria
rich: but wouldn't fit all platforms
cyns: suggest we advise direct mappings from browsers, where appropriate
rich: agree, but
... ex: meter has associated values that may not map
... we can pass off additional properties
cyns: browsers should do best fit mapping
rich: will always be something additional not covered
<Stevef> command is the abstraction behind menu items, buttons, and links.
rich: how do these go into the spec? how integrated
steve: try to fit into current
... what's currently there is for conformance, not a detail implementation mapping for each element
rich: ie may use a very different drawing agent from another browser
cyns: which is why we can't talk about the mappings, just describe
rich: don't mind what the browser does, as long as it does its job and we have sufficient a11y data
cyns: yes, ml launches dialog
steve: is it possible for us
separate out two tasks here?
... mappings is more work than the basic conformance decisions
cyns: seems easier to me, most is already implemented except for new elements
general discussion of what our task actually is
cyns: how to map element to api
is what will be most useful to browser devs; it's also what ian
has been saying
... also, none of these should be overwritten.
rich: ordered list, yes; input element, no
cyns: command element defs differ between w3 and what specs ...\
rrsagent make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Default Present: Rich, Janina, Stevef, Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, [Microsoft] Present: Rich Janina Stevef Janina_Sajka Michael_Cooper [Microsoft] Got date from IRC log name: 25 May 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/05/25-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]