HTML Weekly Teleconference

06 May 2010

See also: IRC log




<trackbot> Date: 06 May 2010

<scribe> scribenick: adrianba

<scribe> scribe: adrianba

1. ACTION items due by Thu May 6

ACTION items due by Thu May 6

<rubys> action-178?

<trackbot> ACTION-178 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to contact the various chairs/co-chairs to resolve the use of the text/html mime type -- due 2010-04-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/178

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-178 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

plh: will do this tomorrow
... at hypertext cg

<rubys> action-179?

<trackbot> ACTION-179 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to set automatic copy of HG to www.w3.org -- due 2010-04-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/179

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-179 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

plh: this one is part of testing TF - should be end of may
... reported this to TF on Tues

<scribe> ...in progress

<rubys> action-179 due may 27

<trackbot> ACTION-179 Set automatic copy of HG to www.w3.org due date now may 27

Issues with deadlines due by May 6

<rubys> issue-27?

<trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-27 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: seem to still be waiting on iesg
... any updates?

julian: i think iesq will happen shortly
... issues have been resolved - need ok of area director
... then be added to rfc editor queue

<pimpbot> Title: HTML5: Techniques for the provision of text alternatives (at dev.w3.org)

julian: that being said, if ppl want to volunteer to test then now would be a good time
... delaying any further doesn't help - it's a matter of days away

rubys: do they have something they can test now?

julian: no but it will be soon so we should encourage people to think about what they want to do now

rubys: we do have volunteers, not sure what their plans are
... once there is something to test, if nothing happens we can do something then

<rubys> issue-82?

<trackbot> ISSUE-82 -- Suggested replacement for head/@profile does not provide for disambiguation -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/82

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-82 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> issue-81?

<trackbot> ISSUE-81 -- Offline Web Applications section should use the term "representation" instead of "resource" -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/81

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-81 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: current status is if people find issues they should open bugs
... no reason to keep this open?

<rubys> close issue-81

<trackbot> ISSUE-81 Offline Web Applications section should use the term "representation" instead of "resource" closed

rubys: no objections, closing the issue

<rubys> issue-81: people who note remaining discrepancies are encouraged to open bugs

<trackbot> ISSUE-81 Offline Web Applications section should use the term "representation" instead of "resource" notes added

<rubys> issue-90

<rubys> issue-90?

<trackbot> ISSUE-90 -- Tighten the focus and allowable content in the figure element -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/90

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-90 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> issue-91?

<trackbot> ISSUE-91 -- Re-focus and tighten definition of the aside element -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/91

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-91 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> issue-93?

<trackbot> ISSUE-93 -- Delete Details Element -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/93

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-93 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> issue-95?

<trackbot> ISSUE-95 -- Remove/Discard the Hidden Attribute -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/95

<rubys> issue-96?

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-95 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<trackbot> ISSUE-96 -- Remove/Discard the Progress Element -- OPEN

<rubys> issue-97?

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/96

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-96 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<trackbot> ISSUE-97 -- Remove/Discard the Meter Element -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/97

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-97 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: on issues 90,91,93,95,96,97 - for each of these issues there is a counterproposal
... this is being discussed but no convergence yet
... likely to go to a survey
... any comments?

<rubys> issue-106?

<trackbot> ISSUE-106 -- Return the concept of Obsolete but conforming back to using obsolete and deprecated -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/106

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-106 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: we have not got any volunteers for issue 106
... if no one wants this now we will close without prejudice

<rubys> close issue-106

<trackbot> ISSUE-106 Return the concept of Obsolete but conforming back to using obsolete and deprecated closed

rubys: okay, closing

<rubys> issue-106: closed without prejudice, as nobody has volunteered to write a change proposal

<trackbot> ISSUE-106 Return the concept of Obsolete but conforming back to using obsolete and deprecated notes added

WG Decision Policy update (Maciej)

rubys: mjs dropped off the call
... he did post resolutions to all bugs except 8895 (FPWD)
... this will be addressed by the time we get to the next FPWD
... if you have any interest in these, please look at the individual bugs

mjs: one bug in particular i would like comments on
... the one that proposes a consistent system for bugzilla resolutions

<MikeSmith> bug 9284

<pimpbot> 11http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9284 mjs@apple.com, P2, REOPENED, 13Consider giving guidelines for use of different bug resolutions

mjs: there is a specific proposal there, there have been a couple of comments
... would like to make sure we end up with something reasonable

MikeSmith: there is a comment from Henri there
... I can add a comment there as someone editing a document
... would be good to get others editing to add comments there

rubys: anything else?

mjs: that's all

Items that close next week (by Thu May 13)

rubys: none

New Calls for Proposals/Counter Proposals/Consensus this Week

<rubys> issue-85?

<trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/85

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-85 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> issue-101?

<trackbot> ISSUE-101 -- Spec reference for US-ASCII -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/101

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-101 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> issue-105?

<trackbot> ISSUE-105 -- allow image maps on the canvas element -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/105

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-105 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: 3 that are calls for counter proposals - will correct mistake in call after meeting
... any questions?

Mike: I thought we had more time on this?

rubys: we have proposals, there is a call for counter proposals - ppl will have time after they volunteer

cyns: issue 85 was discussing in TF this morning

janina: it will be news that we agreed for june 24
... we spent a lot of the call discussing trying to bring in earlier
... but we think this is appropriate for a clean and precise suggestion
... there is now an active group - chance they will beat the deadline but everyone comfortable with the deadline
... canvas map we are waiting for chaals
... caret proposal is needing dev feedback from msft and apple
... actions taken to ping people that need to provide feedback
... may need to slip into june because of lack of feedback

rubys: obviously lots of work to do on canvas
... is the map proposal not ready yet?

janina: not sure which this is

<rubys> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/addimagemaptocanvas

<pimpbot> Title: ChangeProposals/addimagemaptocanvas - HTML WG Wiki (at www.w3.org)

rubys: issue 105 on the status proposal page

janina: we have an action on chaals to provide more spec ready text
... we would like to hold on that a couple more weeks
... he took that action in april

<JF> don't want to speak for Chaals or SteveF, but I beleive that Steve *did* write that up on Chaal's behalf

mjs: this isn't a final deadline for proposals - call for counter proposals doesn't cut anyone off

janina: okay, my misunderstanding

rubys: you'd rather 85 not proceed?

<rubys> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAonanchor

<pimpbot> Title: ChangeProposals/ARIAonanchor - HTML WG Wiki (at www.w3.org)

janina: yes, i think we don't want to move forward until misunderstandings resolved
... we want to be very clear about definitions and what is included
... in the past there has been misunderstanding

cyns: clear and systematic
... instead of list of roles that can override, point to a piece of tree of related elements
... so it is clear why certain overrides are allowed
... so both to be more clear and more logical and understandable
... we're making good progress

Laura: should this be separate from other aria work

rubys: this was received in feb, once the discussion dies down we give people opportunity to counter proposal
... perhaps steve could withdraw is proposal

janina: if that was on steve then perhaps
... think at that point he was acting individually
... we didn't have this level of organisation

cyns: we concluded that individually wasn't the best way to work
... don't think we have another issue to track the work

rubys: my preference is specific feedback should have bugs

Laura: this does have a bug

rubys: true, nothing prevents new bugs

cyns: true, but we need work to figure out what those bugs are

rubys: janina, will you speak to steve about this

janina: sure
... that does beg the question about how we want to deal with all aria mapping

rubys: not proposing to close issue
... think it's confusing to have a proposal on the table when you don't want to proceed
... would like to get this withdrawn

janina: i will talk with him

Upcoming Surveys

rubys: last time we got off topic comments

<rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010May/0052.html

<pimpbot> Title: Preparing for Surveys - Ground Rules from Sam Ruby on 2010-05-05 (public-html@w3.org from May 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

rubys: this time we will do more to enforce scope of survey
... two that we're considering

<rubys> Issue-66?

<trackbot> ISSUE-66 -- image analysis heuristics -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/66

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-66 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<rubys> Issue-88?

<trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should meta/@content allow a list of languages instead of just a single language? -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/88

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-88 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

rubys: think we're reading on issue 66
... still some last minute tweaks on 88 - will give people a few more days
... for example, new proposal and more discussion ongoing
... any discussion?

New Issues This Week

rubys: none

<pimpbot> Title: 4.8.6 The video element HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)

Document Publishing candidates

<pimpbot> Title: 4.8.6 The video element HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)

<Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to ask about CFC for FPWD publication of http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ (as part of next round of heartbeat publications?) and to comment about a11y

<pimpbot> Title: HTML5: Techniques for the provision of text alternatives (at dev.w3.org)

<pimpbot> Title: 4.8.6 The video element HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)

<pimpbot> Title: 4.8.6 The video element HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)

MikeSmith: steve working on document for some time on guidance for alt text for images

<Laura> http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/

<pimpbot> Title: HTML5: Techniques for the provision of text alternatives (at dev.w3.org)

MikeSmith: he would like for that doc to be considered for FPWD publication
... would like to bring this to attention of chairs
... would need call for consensus on that
... speaking for the a11y tf, we'd like this to be published alongside the next heartbeat publications

rubys: noted, will add it to list of tracked docs
... can this be on public-html

MikeSmith: we'll get that done

rubys: now would be an appropriate time with discussion of other docs

<rubys> docs: HTML5,HTML+RDFa, HTML Microdata, HTML Canvas 2D Context, HTML: The Markup Language, HTML5 diffs from HTML4, HTML/XHTML Compatibility Authoring Guidelines

<pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 06 May 2010 (at www.w3.org)

plh: just reading e-mail about this - my concern is that for next round of publication we might start get objections because of captioning format being out of scope for the WG

MikeSmith: yes, we had discussion about WebSRT on TF call
... we will get objections about WebSRT

plh: not just because it is in the HTML5 spec but because it isn't in scope for WG
... might be hard to argue that this is in scope

<Laura> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/video.html#websrt

<pimpbot> Title: 4.8.6 The video element HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)

plh: relatively new to group

<dsinger> it seems that the 'it' is the captioning format SRT

rubys: please open bugs

<plh> david, correct

janina: think the hope might be to possible to avoid this process until requirements determined
... consternation in media sub-group and main tf that this kind of text adds to the work load of the tf
... when people know we are already working on this and in process of providing input
... concerned not following good w3c process
... tf want to object

rubys: we have a decision process, we should follow it - that starts with a bug
... bug could be rip out the following because it's not ready yet
... not taking a position on the topic - just saying that if this is known as an issue let's have someone write up the bug

janina: i'm going to find someone to open the bug

rubys: thanks

plh: i'm reluctant to open bug because i will be part of process to resolve

rubys: bug will require ian to say why he wants to leave it
... he will provide the rationale

janina: concern is meanwhile while it is there people will start to build
... felt to be unfortunate on the part of people in the tf including developers

rubys: encourage you not to wait

dsinger: very quickly, not sure what the concern is
... don't think we can mandate srt
... anyone that implements text captioning will do srt because of the content out there

<JF> not talking about SRT, but rather WebSRT

dsinger: not sure why we should have a debate on srt

plh: problem is defining srt in html5

dsinger: why would we want to do that?

plh: what is in the spec not only defines srt but also extensions to srt

dsinger: okay i missed that

<Laura> WebSRT

<Laura> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/video.html#websrt

<pimpbot> Title: 4.8.6 The video element HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)

plh: my concerns is that from the scope of the group, will have a hard time justifying this being in scope

dsinger: i agree, i don't think it is

mattmay: there has been a subgroup dedicated to filling this hole
... the editor knows this work is going on
... difference between filing a bug against something already there and adding text while work is going on

<JF> +1 with Matt

mattmay: unfortunate that this happened this way

plh: don't think anyone is making technical judgement on websrt

rubys: people are concerned about process
... if people want to remove it that might be fine - we just want to document this - we might need to change decision process
... start with a bug
... does everyone understand how to proceed?

janina: i'm clear and i agree with your last statement

rubys: this was about document publishing candidates

<pimpbot> planet: Getting ready for learn html5 <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2782582/getting-ready-for-learn-html5> 4** Web 2.0 Expo Browser Panel <11http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/h-vyMw2Vt6g/web-2-0-expo-browser-panel>

rubys: anything else on this?

Other Business

rubys: anything else to talk about?

Scribe for next meeting

<pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 06 May 2010 (at www.w3.org)

rubys: i will volunteer


rubys: meeting adjourned, thanks everyone

Summary of Action Items

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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Apple CIA-1 Dashiva Eliot Hixie IPcaller JF Janina_Sajka Lachy Laura Mark Matt MichaelC Michael_Cooper Microsoft Mike MikeSmith Philip Radhika_Roy Sam Shunsuke TF Title Yudai aaaa aabb aacc aadd aaee aaff accessibility additions adrianba aroben arronei changes cyns destablizing dev docs drry dsinger dsinger_ ed_work frankolivier gavin gavin_ gsnedders hober hsivonen html html-wg html5 inimino issue-106 issue-81 janina jgraham jmb johndrinkwater joined julian karl kliehm krijnh mamund mattmay media-element mhakkinen miketaylr mjs myakura oedipus org phenny pimpbot planet plh recent related represent rubys rubys2 scotfl scribenick shepazu spec syp_ tH thugbot timed-tracks tlr to trackbot video w3 webben websrt
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
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        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Regrets: Gregory_Rosmaita
Found Date: 06 May 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-html-wg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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