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<trackbot> Date: 05 May 2010
<scribe> scribe: Chris
<scribe> ScribeNick: ChrisL
The call-in telephone bridge details:
+1.617.761.6200 (Boston) or
+33.4.89.06.34.99 (Nice) or
conference code 3668 ("FONT")
<jfkthame> 0845397... is jfkthame
<jfkthame> btw, jonothan is really spelled "jonathan" :)
<jdaggett> yes, that's why jdaggett is better...
Chris explains the bots, a little
Vlad: welcome everyone
... good to have the group start
Vlad: once we have a workplan agreed we can start. Any suggestions?
Chris: Looks good
Christopher: new to this and mainly listening right now
Vlad: so first item was to
Discuss and finalize the WOFF specification
... run through the text, review text for areas of improvement eg more future proof
... whether the metasdata definition is sufficient
... for the end users and exposable by the user agents
Chris: also good to identify all the conformance statements
Christopher: Is WOFF web only? Meaning of embedding bits. Keeping metadata in sync
Vlad: Not up to our group to make WOFF web only. No significant power to control how it is used
<vlad> ePub developed by IDPF
Vlad: EPUB uses HTML and CSS it
could use WOFF as well
... main focus is to make it suitable for the Web use. If its used elsewhere that is out of scope
Jonathan: EPUB has no benefit to use WOFF. Its a zip file so just add a OT file to the zip
Christopher: Informational metadata could be useful though
Joanathan: guess that is true but could go in ePUB metadata as well
Chris: license agreement may be different for OT and WOFF
Jonathan: ePub is neither print nor Web really
Vlad: Its an exampl eof Web tech being used in non-Web contexts. Just an example
Sylvain: does ePub require all resources to be local?
Vlad: reasonable to assume any
connected device will get online resources
... bottom line, we make WOFF to be used on the Web and if it gets used elsewhere we can't really control that
Chris: what was the point about metadata in sync?
Christopher: OT has tables and information, some people were talking about duplicating some of that in the metadata. Wasn't sure if that should be required to sync with OT table data
Tal: Talked about this a lot when
writing spec and came up with use cases where the dayta would
not be in sync
... eg a type service that adds a different license
Vlad: fonts contributed by individual typographers and the license reflects the EULA under which it was sold, so the vendor info goes to the foundry selling it not the designer
Christopher: agree that there are cases where they would not be in sync
Vlad: extended metadata, no real
control on what goes in there so its hard to mandate as its
extensible by design
... embedding bits are a bone of contention, no good understanding on how they apply to different scenarios
JohnH: Issue with embedding bits
in OS/2 table wrt webfonts came out of EOT which made an
... and the tools looked at the embedding bits for permission to make EOT
... in the 10 year period between EOT and now, the use of embedding bits has become much more focussed on PDF. Foundries see them in that way
... which does not reflect licensing for web use
... so use of embedding bits gives the wrong impression to customers. Can be helped by better metadata and clearer licenses
... should we make explicit that embedding bits are not relevant to WOFF
... most borowsers than link to raw OT ignore embedding bits
... got impression from Si Daniels that Microsoft not so keen on that
Vlad: Two major points, one that
embeddingbits should have no impact on usrr agents, assume the
content creator read the license.
... no need for UA to doubt user intention
... seconfd point is that embedding is an indication of what is setby the license, so its up tothe author to check the license
... differnet for static content or for user editable content
... should be informative not normative
... its toolate to look at the embedding bits once the font has been served
JohnH; Agreed, its mainly to clarify the situation and direct people at EULA not the embedding bits
scribe: should tools for creating
WOGFF look at these, i wou;d argue not
... also the reference to document embedding is not clear in the OT spec
Christopher: main concern is tool
s that generate woff
... sounds like we all agree that user agents ignore embedding bits, so should we put it in the WOFF spec
Jonathan: (scribe missed)
JohnH: Si does not believe the OT
spec needs to be changed here
... believes embedding does not count document serving.
Chris: Is the ISO OFF spec clearer?
(apparently its is identical)
Vlad: getting back to the
... we can of course discuss the technical details, but later
... including conformance and how it impacts same-origin
... active discussion on that point on the mailing list
JohnH: Is any draft outline of the conformance spec yet?
Vlad: Its ahead of us
... some items in the WOFF spec that indicate conformance
JohnH: Agree with Chris to identify conformance in whats expected of user agents
Vlad: agreed, and also suggest we look at any optional components to be sure we are not missing anything by making it optional which creates uncertainty . Prefer to avoid optional components as much as possible
Chris: comments from mozilla on direction of referencing
Vlad; also we will find spec changes by making tests
JohnH: What are the factors that affect this?
<jfkthame> tabatkins: that'll be jdaggett's baby, i think!
jdaggett: Not clear exactly what the issues are and how long CSS3 webfonts will take
Chris: can we help move CSS3 fonts forward?
jdagget: a common web format that is cross browser clearly helps
Vlad: one dependency, it would be
good to see CSS3 Font mandate WOFF for example
... other than this any other dependencies?
jdaggett: no, some of these are undecided. No dependency as such. But if WOFF is to be supported by all user agents
Chris: dependency from the @font-face syntax
jdaggett: some stuff in CSS2 @font-face is dropped
vlad: WOFF tests should not test application of opentype layout features, outside scope
Chris: (example of woff tools that drop important tables)
jdaggett: think that is a transient bug in chrome, as the tables are difficult to validate
vlad; agree, we are making the delivery format and the user agent will extract it and do something with it but at that point we are outside our scope
JohnH: Having WOFF specified will
lead to making solid test cases for CSS3. not sure how it
relates to the conformance spec
... difficult to test fonts to look for cross browser compat as the services are doing PS to TT for example to serve as EOT so getting WOFF out there will be very helpful
... likely WOFF gets specced before CSS3 is done
Vlad: getting to the top of the hour.
action; vlad draft something about embedding bits
<scribe> ACTION: vlad to draft something about embedding bits [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-webfonts-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - vlad
<scribe> ACTION: vladimir to draft something about embedding bits [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-webfonts-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1 - Draft something about embedding bits [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2010-05-12].
<trackbot> ACTION-1 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to draft something about embedding bits -- due 2010-05-12 -- OPEN
Chris: (demonstrates treackbot
... Have made a pubrules-compliant wrapper so first public working draft should be easy
vlad: other action items?
<scribe> ACTION: chris to put the action plan on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-webfonts-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Put the action plan on the wiki [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-05-12].
Erik: My first w3 call - cellphones ok?
Chris: yes if there is a quiet environment
Vlad; Thanks for joining, see you next week, and on email
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Chris Found ScribeNick: ChrisL Default Present: +31.70.360.aaaa, ChrisL, +1.443.895.aabb, Erik, Tal, sylvaing, jdaggett, +1.978.790.aacc, Vlad, TabAtkins, +0845397aadd, +1.250.668.aaee, +1.510.816.aaff, Jonathan, Christopher, +1.425.213.aagg, JohnH, Sergey, Howcome Present: +31.70.360.aaaa ChrisL +1.443.895.aabb Erik Tal sylvaing jdaggett +1.978.790.aacc Vlad TabAtkins +0845397aadd +1.250.668.aaee +1.510.816.aaff Jonathan Christopher +1.425.213.aagg JohnH Sergey Howcome Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010May/0028.html Found Date: 05 May 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-webfonts-minutes.html People with action items: chris vlad vladimir[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]