CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference -- 03 May 2010

<trackbot> Date: 03 May 2010

<smfr> i can't get dialin to work

<shepazu> smfr: the conference code is 26632

<smfr> ah, was looking at the email

<f1lt3r> hey, im in

code today is 26632

<scribe> scribe: Chris

<scribe> ScribeNick: ChrisL

Intros

(people introduce themselves)

<smfr> is al on irc?

'image-fit' vs preserveAspectRatio

http://www.w3.org/mid/25829533.20100331230050@w3.org

<fantasai> ChrisL: There's been a bit of to-and-fro about the naming of these properties

object-fit: fill | cover | contain

object-position: <bg-pos>

<fantasai> ChrisL: That's the most recent proposal from the CSSWG

<f1lt3r> i am al :)

elika: bg-pos allows you to position an image in a box

consistent with background-position in CSS

e.g. top left, 20% 80%

doug: depencdency on box model?

elika: none
... its just the names

erik: read minutes, seem to have had 4 proposals for naming
... would be fine with object-fit and object-position
... liked others better but fine with this one
... fit-position would have been first choice

elika: proposals were in pairs, so what would the other property be called

erik: fit-scale. ... ok not perfect either

doug: objec t-fit ok with me

chris: ok with these names too

(no objections to proposed names)

resolved: svg will accept the css proposal of object-fit and object-position

<smfr> sweeping bird poop, by the sound of it

<fantasai> ACTION fantasai edit css3-images with resolution

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Edit css3-images with resolution [on Elika Etemad - due 2010-05-10].

transitions of CSS images (including gradients)

simon: this is my proposal. web authors can animate links and colours but can't do cross fades between images and especiall gradients

<smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010AprJun/0007.html

simon: new functional notation lets you do wipe or grossfade, or opocity or a filter
... its making a synthetic image that can be used anywhere in css
... gradient interoplation is kind of a side issue
... if accepted, will write a proposal

elika: could go in the images draft

doug: loks good so far, would like to see it in the draft to see it in context

<F1LT3R_> could i get that link again?

simon: infinite range of effects, so how to bound it
... could use svg filters
... need a set of wipes/fades

erik: could do that using filters too

<smfr> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20050107/smil-transitions.html#TransitionEffects-Appendix

anthony; some video editing apps have a set of crossfade effects

chris: smil has a set from video editing

simon: too big a list

anthon: canned list is very extensive

simon: can have canned effects but also a fiunction to transform an image

<ed> erik: mapping more than one input image from css syntax in terms of svg filters is possible, if you want to define it that way (e.g several feImage elements, or new filter input image-keywords)

doug: canned effects as syntactic sugar

anthony: so zoom into images?

simon: yes, and rotates. wipe is a translation

chris: like them all defined and then shorthand for common ones

anthony: need to describe the underlying rendering model. all rendered to an image. need to be clear on how it composites

simon: risk of over complex functions which are hard to author

doug: if the primitives are the underlying part we can optimise

simon: suppose you have a high-level push. but a more complext one would have three or four levels of nesting

chris: ok to make the common things easy and the complex things possible

doug: need some good examles, especially if there are things that will be outside what we plan to do

<scribe> ACTION: simon to draft examples for transitions of css images on a wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/03-fx-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Draft examples for transitions of css images on a wiki [on Simon Fraser - due 2010-05-10].

doug: if its on a wiki we can all contribute

action simon to implement the whole web

<trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Implement the whole web [on Simon Fraser - due 2010-05-10].

close action-5

<trackbot> ACTION-5 Implement the whole web closed

<smfr> heh

<smfr> phew

svg/css merged transforms spec

erik: any progress on that?

anthony: committed a merged spec but its very vasic and needs work. need help with it

<smfr> anthony: is it this? http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG-Transforms/

anthony: need somewhere to put it

action chris to make an fx area on dev.w3.org

<trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Make an fx area on dev.w3.org [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-05-10].

anthony: no, starting with the 2d ones

action doug to ask for an FX wiki

<trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - Ask for an FX wiki [on Doug Schepers - due 2010-05-10].

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/track/

harmonizing CSSMatrix and SVGMatrix (2D)

simon: css matrixc was wrong and svg was right so we have corrected that

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010AprJun/0022.html

simon: the way we implemented css matrix multioply, needed to do a mult right not mult left
... that change is now in webkit. no other changes are needed.
... we use row major because C++ does that
... spec needs to be updated. removed multiply-left
... pseudocode is in c/c++ style, need to be more explicit to be column major

anthony: doesn;t matter on internal format as long as spec gives right results

<dbaron> Talking about left and right is a bit painful because they have opposite meanings with row-major and column-major

anthony: ok with actual matrix examples. should clarify that internal format is implementor chpice

chris: agree with david

david; cairo and mozilla do it the opposite way round for example

<dbaron> cairo and the spec, anyway

<dbaron> and in some places mozilla follows the spec and in some follows cairo

erik; dom interfaces have access properties, will these be the same?

simon: yes
... so spec will be updated to use the svg notation
... remaining piece is decomposition pseudocode, - can leave it and say it refers to coloumn-major, or replace it with the actual math

chris: ok to keep pseudocode as long as its prefaced by an explanation of the two ways to do it

actiuon: simon add explanatory material about row and column major options to spec

actiion: simon add explanatory material about row and column major options to spec

<scribe> ACTION: simon add explanatory material about row and column major options to spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/03-fx-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-8 - Add explanatory material about row and column major options to spec [on Simon Fraser - due 2010-05-10].

<ed> s/dom interfaces have access properties/the SVG/CSSMatrix dom interfaces have access properties [a-f] for matrix values/

next telcon

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Main_Page

simon: prefer biweekly andf 60 minutes

<smfr> "The URL path in your request doesn't match anything we have available."

(general agreement on 60 minutes biweekly)

<scribe> ACTION: chris to book a regular biweekly telcon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/03-fx-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Book a regular biweekly telcon [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-05-10].

elika: simin mentioned a colour function, what is it for?

david: for cross fade t a solid colour

elika: why not just put a colour value directly?

simon: ambiguity in background shorthand
... will see if we can do just a colour

elika: or wrap in image notation

doug: will transitions also work with svg, withing svg and also for svg images used as backgrounds in html?

simon: will work on animatable css properties, and will work with svg images same as any other image

erik: agree

doug: does the spec make it clear that this is allowed?

adjourned

- DRAFT -

CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference

03 May 2010

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