SVG Working Group Teleconference -- 22 Apr 2010

<trackbot> Date: 22 April 2010

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/types.html#DataTypeNumber

ACTION-2730?

<trackbot> ACTION-2730 -- Chris Lilley to fix the broken grammar for scientific notation in SVG 1.1 and 1.2T -- due 2010-02-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2730

http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-svg-minutes.html#ActionSummary

<ed> 9e-1

scientific-number: := decimal-number [Ee] integer

http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/types.html#DataTypeInteger

<ed> 9e-.4

<scribe> scribe: chris

<scribe> scribenick: chrisl

.6e3

<scribe> ACTION: chris to fix the definition of number to allow scientific notation in attribute values [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2765 - Fix the definition of number to allow scientific notation in attribute values [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].

implementations certainly allow .3 and i think they allow .3e3 as well

need to add a test for that syntax for stroke width or something

<ed> "When used in an SVG attribute that is not also a presentation attribute, a <number> is defined differently, to allow numbers with large magnitudes to be specified more concisely:"

<ed> should be changed to allow scientific notation in presentation attributes

that text is new, wrong, and easily fixed

Moving/closing open issues and actions on SVG 1.1F2

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0025.html

There was some discussion recently on Line caps drawing on zero length lines

jeff schiller argued it was pointless, dr olaf said it was needed

ISSUE-2259?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2259 -- Inconsistent use of <uri> symbol -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2259

chris: hard to grep for url( in the tests

erik: some errors in the markup, maybe from master to publish

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#MaskProperty

should use func

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#ClipPathProperty

http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/masking.html#ClipPathProperty

<a href="types.html#DataTypeFuncIRI">&ltfunc;iri></a>

yes needs to be fixed in master

erik: is it only properties that use funcIRI?

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/propidx.html (looks broken there too)

chris: in 1.1 yes. 1.2t also uses it for navigation

erik: need to check all of these from the property table. not autogenerated. need to edit idd files?
... will have a look at the scripts in case there is automation there

ISSUE-2305?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2305 -- Line caps drawing on zero length lines -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2305

ISSUE-2314?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2314 -- Negative values in polygon/polyline points -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2314

erik: lets move that to 2.0

doug: jeff would rather adress it now I think.

(we think most implementations allow space to be omitted if the second argument is negative)

moveto-argument-sequence:

coordinate-pair

| coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence

moveto-argument-sequence:

coordinate-pair

| coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence

coordinate-pair:

coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate

so it should be

coordinate-pair:

coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate | coordinate negativecoordinate

(we do some browser testing on the fly with inconsistent results)

patrick: opera and ie9 both read the negative as a separator
... firefox is not

erik: safari has a green rect
... trying batik ....
... green rect as well

chris: so all but firefox, in summary

i think this is one we should do now

doug: illustrator shows a green box too

<patrickd> <polygon fill="red" transform="translate(100,100)"

<patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />

<patrickd> <polygon fill="green" transform="translate(200,200)"

<patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />

<patrickd> <polygon fill="red" transform="translate(300,300)"

<patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />

<patrickd> <polygon fill="green" transform="translate(400,400)"

<patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />

<scribe> ACTION: chris to edit path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2766 - Edit path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].

<scribe> ACTION: chris to test for path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2767 - Test for path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].

ISSUE-2317?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2317 -- Give different result for feGaussianBlur stdDeviation=0 -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2317

erik: made some changes to a local copy of svg filters, not completed yet, will split the equation for x and y
... as dr hoffman suggested

chris: we try to avoid having zero be a singularity

erik: ok will do in filters, then backport to 1.1 if it works ok and there is time

action-2189?

<trackbot> ACTION-2189 -- Erik Dahlström to clarify that stdDeviation="25,0" for feGaussianBlur still means that the filter must be rendered -- due 2008-12-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2189

erik: added some tests for this in filter module so can add those
... but no implementation handles it, they all give no output for zero

chris: can opera change to add that?

erik: already done, ha!

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/test/svg/filters-gauss-201.svg

ISSUE-2318?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2318 -- How should text-decorations be rendered wrt boundingbox units (gradients, filters)? -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2318

erik: more of a clarification

chris: a test with a small text string like "..." would show this with strikethrough and underline

erik: or an svg font with a huge underline offset

doug: better to do in 2.0 as we attack decorated bounding box then

chris: yes

erik: can test with getBbox

doug: depends what it takes into account. eg not stroke width

erik: its the glyphbox

chris: it all depends on whether the strike and underline are considered part of the glyph or are considered extra graphics drawn along with the glyph

erik: text decoration not implemented in firefox

doug: text support in svg in firefox needs work
... jwatt aware of the issue

chris: agree, move to 2.0

erik: updating issue now

open 1.1 actions

ACTION-2077?

<trackbot> ACTION-2077 -- Erik Dahlström to test implementations for percentage values in clipPath, etc. -- due 2008-07-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077

erik: mre exploratory, change how clippath percent units are resolved, more of a 2.0 thing

s/mire/more/

moved to 2.0

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

erik: hmm the issue is already 2.0 but it shows in tracker as a 1.1 action, odd

chris (some tracker bugs if issues and actions are on different products)

erik: want a deadline for completing these actions

chris: one week

erik: ok, one week. if not done, mark as 2.0

patrick: if they don't get attention then we can move thwem and worry later if they still are relevant
... cvs access still not working

ACTION-2590?

<trackbot> ACTION-2590 -- Cameron McCormack to ensure javadocs get published when 1.1F2 is published -- due 2009-06-09 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2590

erik: not sure if that has been done

doug: mail heycam and ask

erik: will do

action erik to mail heycam about ACTION-2590

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2768 - Mail heycam about ACTION-2590 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-04-29].

ACTION-2644?

<trackbot> ACTION-2644 -- Chris Lilley to update the 1.1 DTD under /Graphics/SVG when publishing 1.1SE -- due 2009-08-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2644

chris: do we want a dtd? we are guiding people away from them
... we would need to update the DTD for all changes

erik: ned to harvest already for default values

chris: much clearer to say "if not specified" than to have a dtd snippet

<scribe> ACTION: erik check the DTD for defaulted values and put lacuna wording in the spec for each one [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2769 - Check the DTD for defaulted values and put lacuna wording in the spec for each one [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-04-29].

chris: did we add or remove attributes or elements?

erik: something about font or font face elements.
... not sure
... check the errata page

chris; ok if we already made dtd changes from errata we need to republish that DTD

<ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml

http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#font_module_add_fontface

ok so only one dtd change, easy to do

erik: it was correct in the dtd not in the spec snippet
... so we can copy the old DTD in fact

chris: if its identical no need for an update

close ACTION-2644

<trackbot> ACTION-2644 Update the 1.1 DTD under /Graphics/SVG when publishing 1.1SE closed

ACTION-2743?

<trackbot> ACTION-2743 -- Chris Lilley to make a harness version of the 1.1SE errata tests and link to imp report -- due 2010-03-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2743

chris: if there are unapproved tests then i will agenda+ them for monday

erik: is it better to change the fx taskforce telcon now or have the call and decisde on the call a new time?

doug: better for me to have it the week after (www2101)
... better to change the time now ad postpone the call

erik: ok

f2f agenda

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Brussels%2C_Belgium_F2F#Agenda

erik: day planning is usuall done in the first session so its not fixed yet

patrick: wondering if we want to spend a full day on second edition work?

erik: if its done before then not, otherwise its a way to get it done

patrick: what is this about a conformance report?

<patrickd> These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports are intended not to test implementations

(explains the difference between implementation testing and conformance certification)

<patrickd> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview

These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports are intended not to certify implementations as conforming, but rather the interoperable implementability of the specification itself.

the wonders of wiki

http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/implementation-report.html

patrick: the 1.1 test suite is seen by the public as a conformance suite. and there are a lot of animation tetss, which we don't pass

doug: this is a fundamental part of the process. we have to make implementation reports

chris: all the browsers started with low scores. this is not surprising

doug: yes we do need more tests

erik: we can do more testing of interactions

doug: also svg+html tets are needed - good to test, but outside our current scope

erik: want to see that in the charter for the new work in svg 2.0

doug: very bad for morale to hold up 1.1se while the test suite gets bigger

patrick: happy to contribute more tests as long as they are reviewed

doug: its time consuming work. 1.2T spent a year to do that

erik: we need a new automated test harness really

doug: can call this out more explicitly
... goot to have microsoft join the SVG IG to help with torture tests

patrick: location for the extra two days are now confirmed

adjourned

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

22 Apr 2010

Attendees

Contents

Moving/closing open issues and actions on SVG 1.1F2

open 1.1 actions

f2f agenda

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output