See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 16 April 2010
<Yolanda> Meeting: prov-xg
<Yolanda> Paolo: the slides are too big to make it in the mailing list, so just post the URL
<Yolanda> I meant Paulo, sorry
<ppinheir2> PML presentation: http://trust.utep.edu/2010/PMLProvenance.ppt
<ppinheir2> PML Presentation: http://trust.utep.edu/2010/PMLProvenance.pdf (PDF version in case someone cannot open the PPT version)
<DeborahMcG> Hi
<DeborahMcG> I am hoping that the pml discussion can be the first of the 2 discussions planned today - will that work?
getting some tweets
<Paolo> it's also all over twitter :-)
I'll do it
<Paolo> ok I can do it
<Paolo> oh, ok
<ppinheir2> http://trust.utep.edu/2010/PMLProvenance.ppt
Discussion about PML
<Yolanda> scribe: pgroth
<Yolanda> scribenick: pgroth
<Yolanda> zakim: save agenda
Paulo: PML started in 2003 and
was part of DAML
... pml emerged for explaining theorem prover results
... PML has expanded beyond theorem prover explanation
generalized to provenance
Slide 3
Paulo: pml-p module
meta-metadata: how do you annotate the trace with
information
... pml-p is used for provenance
Slide 4
Paulo: important point that PML
provenance (PML-P) can be used with any string
... not just logical sentences
Slide 5
Paulo: use terminology from proof
theory, this may cause confusion
... inference rules represent any information
transformation
Slide 6
Example of PML to describe provenance of a gif
Paulo: Justifications consist of
multiple inference steps which contain information about the
method applied to obtain results
... OPM or PML may not be causality graphs (left to another
discussion)
Slide 7
Paulo: Provenance needs to capture everything
<Yolanda> Ivan: why does zakim not recognize the conference? we told him :)
Slide 8
Paulo: Provenance needs to also capture manual actions by people
Slide 9
Paulo: discussing Probe-It! PML provenance browser
Slide 10: Going through example
Paulo: By going through provenance, providing information that was lost to the user when looking at end products in this case an image
Slide 11
<jcheney> Can someone re-send the link to the slides? (I was late)
http://trust.utep.edu/2010/PMLProvenance.ppt
<jcheney> Thanks!
Pointers to examples and tools for PML
<DeborahMcG> from http://Inference-Web.org
<DeborahMcG> one can also get to the publication list including the ones paulo sent out
PML presentation done, questions on PML
paul: how can we align vocabularies given the misunderstanding with the logical proof vocabulary
paulo: writing a technical report with this mapping now. sees a benefit in aligning the vocabularies
q_
deborah: requirements for pml
come from a different community than opm
... alignment should be a priority for this group of pml plus
opm
... bof meeting discussion about alignment
luc: likes the idea of the tech
report
... were you able to do the mapping in pc3
paulo: yes with limited restrictions
luc: what about time? can you link dependencies and time?
<DeborahMcG> there were two independent efforts using PML in the PC3 and both had solutions to the issue
paulo: we do not enforce
constraints but can specify it at different levels
... no restrictions on what you can write in pml, allow for
inconsistencies
luc: consistency check for causality and time is in opm and is well defined
paulo: consistency check lies on top of pml, not within pml
yolanda: missing from PML an
articulation from PML about requirements
... group would like to see requirements for inference from
PML
... have not captured use cases that reflect requirements for
inference
... PML group should share requirements
... requirements as use cases
paulo: should be consolidated as requirements
<DeborahMcG> http://www.ksl.stanford.edu/KSL_Abstracts/KSL-04-03.html was the first paper that described requirements - not in use case form though.
paulo: would nice to get some feedback from others
<DeborahMcG> i am willing to do co-do a use case or a few.
yolanda: justification and proof use cases would be nice
Second topic: planning the state of the art
yolanda: we've been going over
technology
... has some ideas in organization
... task force idea from jun
... go around the group and get ideas for organization
... more linked to requirements document the better
going around the call getting ideas
<ppinheir2> I would like to thank the group for your feedback
and contributions
ssahoo2: agree with the proposal would like to be part of the management task force
paulo: concern about these task
force integration
... but to get things moving agrees
paul: would like to see
connection to technical and user requirements
... contribute to the use part
but what about requirements!
:-)
olaf: makes sense to me
... join the use task force
jun: how to organize the
meetings, every subgroup have a meeting each week
... interested in management or use
<Yolanda> hi Coralie
<Yolanda> can you see the history of the thread?
<Yolanda> yes we still do
<Irini> +1 for james
jcheney: another suggestion,
thought the state of the art report would come from
experts
... what would it entail to be on management?
<Paolo> +1 for James' proposal
<ppinheir2> interested in joining the content task force
jcheney: divide content by expertise
yolanda: preference not to split the topics by technology
<Irini> +q
sam: ok with the task force
division
... would be on the content or use task force
Paolo?
paolo: concerned that the task
force structure to much splitting
... not sure he would want to commit to a particular
group
... there are state of the art surveys already
... can we use those?
luc: i don't understand the split
between three task forces
... what do we want to produce?
... agree with paolo problem with integration
... expertise in technologies and not in specific facets of
provenance
... what would be useful is a matrix: technologies |
requirements
... how does each technology match each requirements
... division in task force is not very useful until we identify
what we produce
irini: agree with james, paolo
and luc
... cannot understand how dividing the task force on the
dimensions will help
... divide along expertise lines
christine it's bad...
<Christine> I'll type instead. Please continue conversation.
<Yolanda> ok thanks
<Yogesh> Wonder if I'm visible in the user list....got skipped when going round the table :)
yogesh?
Yolanda: worried about splitting the group
<Paolo> @yogesh -- you weren't until a little while ago -- shout! :-)
Yolanda: worried about not capturing the synergies
<ppinheir2> i have a proposal
Yolanda: structure along the
requirements we had
... we have had a nice flow
... matrix technology vs. requirements
is a good idea
Yolanda: the reason to split the
document is to divide the work
... we need to start writing and producing
<Christine> Given that my background is law/policy, I am probably most useful helping to ensure that the report is accessible to people outside the provenance field, particularly regarding provenance use; our definition of provenance etc.
<Yogesh> I like the splitup of the topics...But I'd like to get a better idea or even outline of what the 'state of the art' looks like...feel I'd fit into the 'management' taskforce
Can we not have both
?
So organize by dimensions: but have contributions from experts
<Paolo> hopefully we'll continue this on the list?
+1
Yolanda: cover this topic next week
go with the mailing list I think
trackbot, end telcon
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