See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 13 April 2010
<iv_an_ru> I'm at chat only, no phone
<scribe> chair: Ahmed
<scribe> scribe: hhalpin
Seema, MacTed, Michael, Richard, Nuno, EricP, Ashok, Juan,
<mhausenblas> please do not post files to the mailing list
we are in the rdb2rdf working group
<juansequeda> mhausenblas, our bad. Dan doesn't have access to the wiki yet
<juansequeda> I'm resending everything now
<ericP> juansequeda, i never saw a google invite either
<ericP> could you send to firstname.lastname@example.org ?
<juansequeda> ericP, I already did. Didn't you get it?
<trackbot> ACTION-36 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to review the UC and report back to the WG with requests for more details -- due 2010-03-30 -- OPEN
APPROVED: Meeting minutes approved for April 6th 2010
<trackbot> ACTION-38 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to review the UC and report back to the WG with requests for more details -- due 2010-04-06 -- OPEN
<mhausenblas> close ACTION-36
<trackbot> ACTION-36 Review the UC and report back to the WG with requests for more details closed
<mhausenblas> close ACTION-38
<trackbot> ACTION-38 Review the UC and report back to the WG with requests for more details closed
<trackbot> ACTION-39 -- Harry Halpin to begin a draft of Working Group Note on use-cases, ordering them from most complete to least complete -- due 2010-04-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-40 -- Juan Sequeda to will make ER diagrams for use-case document -- due 2010-04-06 -- OPEN
ericP: I am interested mostly in
... but others are interested in user stories
<mhausenblas> close ACTION-40
<trackbot> ACTION-40 Will make ER diagrams for use-case document closed
don't worry the expressivity requirements will become very important
juan: angela has updated wiki
with intro and motivation
... daniel and I were updating the spreadsheet
juan: but we're just giving write access to people now
everyone has had a chance to try to fill out their use-cases
Daniel: these actions are still
open, people haven't really updated their use-cases
... I am happy to update the spreadsheet.
... but I have to nag people
Ahmed: the structure is
motivation, use-case, and then each requirement deduced from
... Is anyone working on the requirements
ericP: I've been pooling away
looking at the difference between the various
... but I have my own feelings about the characteristics of the expressivity
daniel: I'm pushing down that
path as well, but from top-down as opposed to bottom up
... we should meet at some point
... a lot of these pieces are already written
... for the use-cases, from the original workshop and the charter
... if we take the time to look at the community, we can bring and borrow them into this report
Ahmed: Can you send us URLs?
<mhausenblas> and the report at http://www.w3.org/2007/03/RdfRDB/report
daniel: I will mail these links out
Ahmed: can we pin down dates for
the various sections?
... because otherwise we run the risk of missing april
juan: the whole document needs to be done by end of April
Ahmed: So this week we really
need to give input
... I can see we have a lot of material for motivation and use-cases, but little in the way of requirements
... We need a lead person for the requirements
Michael: Note we only have two
more telecons, the 20th and 27th
... the 27th will be during WWW2010.
... Do you work everything out ericP including pubrules
ericP: The fact that there's two of us working on it is better
Michael: So do we work via XML
ericP: or directly via HTML
Michael: then let's use
... let's draft something asap.
Ahmed: Yes, you should create a skeleton, and then extract from the wiki and spreadsheet into the document.
<mhausenblas> ACTION: mhausenb to draft an Use Case WD with xml-spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - Draft an Use Case WD with xml-spec [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-04-20].
angela: I am done with the motivation section mostly
Ahmed: so give feedback to angela this week
Daniel: We should kill a few that's easy, but it's harder to determine if we are missing a use-case
Ahmed: Every use-case should go by the end of the spreadsheet
Daniel: by today
<scribe> ACTION: jsequeda to nag each of the use-cases owners to finish off the spreadsheet [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Nag each of the use-cases owners to finish off the spreadsheet [on Juan Sequeda - due 2010-04-20].
<Souri> if possible, it will be nice to see a list of <usecase, owner> pairs
<scribe> ACTION: hhalpin to create WBS poll for use-case document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Create WBS poll for use-case document [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-04-20].
The final decision lies in the hands of the editors
who are Michael, Angela, Daniel, Juan, and Eric it seems
<mhausenblas> Editors are Eric and Michael
Ahmed: I'd be comfortable if the editors do first clean-up, and then we review next week
<mhausenblas> Authors are Angela, Daniel, Juan, Soeren and Lee
Ahmed: We need two dates, one for editors to clean up use-cases, and then another so we don't lose the dates.
Daniel: early Monday morning is the earliest deadline
Ahmed: Early monday morning is fine
+1 not missing first deadline!
Ahmed: You own the requirement
... ericP will be the main owner of the requirement sections.
ericP: works for me
... I can do Sunday night.
Michael: how we get from XML document to period when it's done.
<Souri> current use-cases list: <HCLS, ericP>, <BioPAX, ericP>, <integrating RDBs for tax control, Angela>, <WebApps-wordpress-and-oscommerce, ???>, <UniProt, ???>, <rCAD, juan-and-dan>, <many-to-many-join-tables, ???>, <value-based-type-spec, ???>
ericP: We have faith in the editors
hhalpin: there will be some
... at the end of the meeting
michael can be able to make that meeting
Ahmed: So the entire XML document
will be available to us a few days before the 27th, so we can
draft it up quickly after the 27th to send the final version to
... no objections
ericP: let's have all the editors talk to Dan over the spreadsheet
ericP: descriptive text?
<mhausenblas> Michael: the Working Draft will appear at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/use-cases/
<mhausenblas> (note that ATM there is just a minimal skeleton)
ericP: you would want first
... more text
... than one appears right now
<Souri> Could someone update the owner info in the use-cases list I posted above?
ericP: the point I interpreted is to expand the use-case
daniel: we could have 12 pages and then several appendices.
<Souri> Specifically, who submitted the "UniProt" use case? the "many-to-many join tables"? and the "value-based-type-spec"?
<juansequeda> Souri, I just gave you access
daniel: two kinds of readers, one that wants all the details to run the code and the other that doesn't.
ericP: Can the person read it on the plane? How useful is UML diagram?
daniel: I live and die by them.
<MacTed> +1 for details in appendices
<MacTed> hrefs to #frag-ids which are within-URL appendices seems OK to me...
<juansequeda> Souri, Uniprot is from Eric and the last two examples are from Lee
<Souri> updated list just to be complete (all the info is in the spreadsheet): <HCLS, ericP>, <BioPAX, ericP>, <integrating RDBs for tax control, Angela>, <WebApps-wordpress-and-oscommerce, Soeren>, <UniProt, ericP>, <rCAD, juan-and-dan>, <many-to-many-join-tables, LeeF>, <value-based-type-spec, LeeF>
daniel: I'd prefer to keep UML
diagrams in but we have to see it first
... before making the decision
angela: do you prefer me to generate a UML for the example diagrams I gave?
ericP: intended queries
... what kinds of queries to expect
... wanted it to be clear that we are actually querying the database, not just doing a dump and then querying that dump
... do we not want to show that people?
orri: I think it's important that
we show this
... it should figure prominently in the intro that we do the mapping on the fly without an ETL
ericP: Happy to say that in
... but do we just say that it words
orri: we should have fairly
... rely on SPARQL 1.1 regardless
thinking that we need to check how our schedule interacts with SPARQL 1.1.
Ahmed: I think we need to show that it can work this way
ericP: we should have example query for each use-case
Souri: it's key we can't
materialize on triple form
... that's important it almost comes from there
... so we don't replicate the database
... but how that is done is implementation-specific
orri: a query for each one
... may take up too space
... so we can say it may translate into some SQL
... although the exact SQL will only be may be translated
... since we are not sure of which kind
daniel: we should not worry about implementation details
ericP: we can not worry about this now
Ahmed: We don't want to put in...
angela: I did put it in and then
took it out
... remember that I introduced the URIs in order to join two tables
Daniel: we have to adjust when making the working language
MacTed: We are turning use-cases
into case studies
... we don't need to do exhaustive example work-throughts
thats the actual test-cases
angela: we will put as much as possible and then the editors can cut
trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/swxg/rdb2rdf/ Succeeded: s/Soeren/Soeren and Lee/ Found Scribe: hhalpin Inferring ScribeNick: hhalpin Default Present: Seema, +1.562.249.aaaa, Souri, mhausenblas, [IPcaller], Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, MacTed, cygri_, nunolopes, EricP Present: Seema +1.562.249.aaaa Souri mhausenblas [IPcaller] Ashok_Malhotra juansequeda MacTed cygri_ nunolopes EricP Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Apr/0008.html Found Date: 13 Apr 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-minutes.html People with action items: hhalpin jsequeda mhausenb[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]