Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference

12 Mar 2010


See also: IRC log


Yolanda, Ivan, SamCoppens, +1.619.223.aabb, +30281039aacc, +30281039aadd, Luc, jun, +1.801.712.aaee, +1.518.608.aaff, +1.518.763.aagg
Yolanda Gil


<trackbot> Date: 12 March 2010

i have not gotten koffee yet, that's why

<scribe> Meeting: prov-xg

<scribe> Scribe: Yolanda


<Paolo> I can do it

<Paolo> (if I remember how...)

<Paolo> Yolanda: we are 1/2 way through the life of the incubator group

<Paolo> today's goals: this is a good time to checkpoint, so we want to make sure that we communicate to people outside this group

<Paolo> reaching out is a priority

<Paolo> 1) current organisation of the wiki

<Paolo> Yolanda has been updating the wiki in terms of content

<Paolo> ideas to make it more useful/usable?

<SamCoppens> +q

<Paolo> Sam Coppens: found what I was looking for

<Christine> Should the date be February 2010 rather than 2009 for the quote attributed to John Sheridan?

<Paolo> (Juliana Freire - Univ. Utah introduces herself)

<JimM> Is the Mendeley list referenced on the main wiki page?

<Paolo> @Jim seems not

<Paolo> Paolo: will see how to best advertise the current Mendely content and make it broadly available

<Paolo> Yolanda: our first deliverable is a synthesis of the requirements for provenance

<Paolo> centered around 3 "mega use cases" that Paul Groth is assembling

<Paolo> J Cheney is also putting together one of these cases

<Paolo> these will be discussed on the 19th

<Paolo> 3) what should we be doing to prepare for the next deliverable as we go through the thematic discussions

<DeborahMcG> at some point in the telecon, i would like to announce that the updated abstract deadline for IPAW 2010 is tonight midnight hawaii time (and the updated full paper due date is next friday midnight)

<Paolo> Paolo: need to be careful not to lose information

<Christine> Re the subject matter calls - there seem to be from 2 main perspectives: (1) What work is going on in the provenance space (2) Areas that would find provenance useful (e.g. e Gov)

<Paolo> because the deliv is likely to be the main doc that external people will look at

<Paolo> Yolanda: is the current mechanism ok? calls/irc/ external guests as we have done so far

<Paolo> Jun: comment on the mega- use case:

<Paolo> see if specific application areas (eg e-government) can be generalised

<Paolo> as a matter of method

<Paolo> Jun: good immediacy to the invited talks, eg the opm session allowed for immediate feedback and clarifications

<Paolo> esp for people who wouldn't spend a long time going through the spec

<Christine> Hi. I missed that. Dropped off the call.

<Paolo> Yolanda: what topics for the coming weeks

<Luc> could someone talk about premis?

<Paolo> -multimedia, then Dublin Core, then PML, then provenance vocabulary already planned

<SamCoppens> I can talk about PREMIS

<Christine> If we can it might also be useful to hear from other industries/areas that would benefit from developments in provence

<SamCoppens> +q

<Paolo> PREMIS will be add to the list

<Paolo> add -> added

<Paolo> Luc: +1 for provenir, possibly along with tjhe provenance vocabulary

<Paolo> Luc: when are we moving to the next phase of the incubator?

<Paolo> Yolanda: the goal of the presentations is to help us gain some perspective

<Paolo> prior to setting out to working on the final report

<Paolo> Luc: need to understand what the SOA report will contain, to drive further presentations/topics

<jun> something like different task forces?

<Luc> could we build a matrix technology x requirements?

<Paolo> Yolanda: when discussing deliv. 1 on March 19th it is a good chance to checkpoint

<Paolo> Yolanda: we could group task forces around the three main groups of provenance dimensions we have identified

<Paolo> Luc: tech/requirements matrix

<Paolo> Yolanda: will try to organise the task forces on the 19th

<Paolo> Jim: hard to do a synthesis activity online, maybe the f2f is the right place?

<Paolo> we may be able to collapse many requirements using a limited set of technology solutions

<Paolo> but this process is best carried out in the F2F

<Paolo> next topic: should we have an agreed upon working definition of provenance?

<JimM> or patterns rather than technologies

<Christine> Agree we should have a definition

<Paolo> ok thanks Jim

<JimM> e.g. metadata (of a wide range of types) + causality covers many use cases

<Luc> this may take the rest of the incubator life!

<DeborahMcG> i agree. i will send out what we are using in our slides later today when i am better connected

<Christine> It would be useful for people outside the provenance space

<Paolo> I usually explain by examples

<JimM> +1 for a working definition capturing the core

<Paolo> and those tend to be context-specific

<JimM> -q

<Paolo> Yolanda to create a wiki page where people can contribute their own defs of what provenance is or is not

<Paolo> Juliana +1

<Paolo> (was that Juliana?)

<Paolo> next topic: a set of slides to be used to present the group's activities

<Paolo> Yolanda: who can contribute?

<Paolo> Ivan: no immediate need to delvier a presentation to other W3C chairs, the times should be mature

<JimM> +1 for some shared slides about the WG - I'd be happy to comment/contribute

<Paolo> Ivan: presentation could be done to the W3C team beyond the SW activity, but when and only if the message is ready to be delivered

<Luc> +1

<Luc> we should also discuss the provenance of WHAT?

<Paolo> next topic: what may be the best use of our face to face meeting?

<Paolo> Jim: use it to do a working meeting for synthesis activity

<Paolo> Yolanda: suggestions on how to run the meeting and use the time?

<JimM> a definition of provenance, a taxonomy of provenance systems, patterns for provenance...

<Paolo> Jim: patterns of provenance: for example causality + certain tyeps of metadata is a pattern

<Paolo> that can capture many reqs at once

<Paolo> so patterns as a concise way to describe large number of reqs

<Paolo> Yolanda: where do we sit on the layer cake?

<Luc> I used to have a slide with provenance in the layer cake ;-)

<JimM> quick thought: it's a vertical like security...

<Paolo> Ivan: the layer cake may be outdated wrt current technology -- so may not be worth doing the exercise

<Paolo> last topic: do we need to adjust our planned activities or change our process?

<Paolo> (no comments)

<Paolo> +1 for skipping :-)

<jun> +1

<Christine> I will not be able to attend

<Irini> +1 for skipping

<ivan> I will be away anyway:-)

<Paolo> schools are closed...

trackbot, etnd telcon

<trackbot> Sorry, Yolanda, I don't understand 'trackbot, etnd telcon'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/03/12 17:17:17 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/W3C chairs/W3C team/
Found Scribe: Yolanda
Inferring ScribeNick: Yolanda

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.

Default Present: Yolanda, Ivan, SamCoppens, +1.619.223.aabb, +30281039aacc, +30281039aadd, Luc, jun, +1.801.712.aaee, +1.518.608.aaff, +1.518.763.aagg
Present: Yolanda Ivan SamCoppens +1.619.223.aabb +30281039aacc +30281039aadd Luc jun +1.801.712.aaee +1.518.608.aaff +1.518.763.aagg
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2010Mar/0007.html
Found Date: 12 Mar 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/12-prov-xg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>.

Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of 
new discussion topics or agenda items, such as:
<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]