RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 25 August 2011

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Aug/0048.html
Seen
Benjamin Adrian, Gregg Kellogg, Henri Bergius, Ivan Herman, Knud Möller, Manu Sporny, Niklas Lindström, Shane McCarron, Stéphane Corlosquet, Ted Thibodeau
Guests
Stéphane Corlosquet, Henri Bergius, Niklas Lindström
Chair
Manu Sporny
Scribe
Benjamin Adrian
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Generate a triple in the default graph when the @vocab attribute is processed: <current-document> rdfa:usesVocabulary <iri-to-vocab> . link
Topics
13:42:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-rdfa-irc

13:42:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

13:42:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332

13:42:18 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes

13:42:19 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:42:19 <trackbot> Date: 25 August 2011
13:42:20 <manu1> Guest: Stéphane (scor) Corlosquet
13:42:21 <manu1> Guest: Henri (bergie) Bergius
13:42:22 <manu1> Guest: Niklas (lindstream) Lindström
13:50:19 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Aug/0048.html
13:50:24 <manu1> Chair: Manu
13:53:41 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 11 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

13:53:49 <Zakim> + +358.405.25aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +358.405.25aaaa

13:53:59 <bergie> Zakim, aaaa is me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, aaaa is me

13:53:59 <Zakim> +bergie; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bergie; got it

13:54:00 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

13:54:00 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

13:54:01 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

13:54:06 <bergie> Zakim, mute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, mute me

13:54:06 <Zakim> bergie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should now be muted

13:54:36 <ivan> zakim, drp me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drp me

13:54:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'drp me', ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'drp me', ivan

13:54:39 <ivan> zakim, drop me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me

13:54:39 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected

13:54:41 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

13:54:50 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

13:54:50 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

13:54:51 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

13:55:04 <bergie> Zakim, unmute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, unmute me

13:55:04 <Zakim> bergie should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should no longer be muted

13:55:19 <bergie> Zakim, mute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, mute me

13:55:19 <Zakim> bergie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should now be muted

13:55:28 <bergie> Zakim, unmute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, unmute me

13:55:28 <Zakim> bergie should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should no longer be muted

13:57:11 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8

13:57:30 <Zakim> +scor

Zakim IRC Bot: +scor

13:57:36 <ivan> zakim, ??P8 is Benjamin

Ivan Herman: zakim, ??P8 is Benjamin

13:57:37 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Benjamin; got it

13:57:39 <Benjamin> zakim, +??P8 is me

Benjamin Adrian: zakim, +??P8 is me

13:57:40 <Zakim> sorry, Benjamin, I do not recognize a party named '+??P8'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Benjamin, I do not recognize a party named '+??P8'

13:57:52 <bergie> Zakim, mute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, mute me

13:57:52 <Zakim> bergie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should now be muted

13:58:26 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

13:58:50 <gkellogg> zakim, ??P13 is me

Gregg Kellogg: zakim, ??P13 is me

13:58:50 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it

14:00:16 <Zakim> +??P25

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25

14:00:17 <Zakim> +??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26

14:00:21 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P25

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P25

14:00:21 <Zakim> +manu1; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu1; got it

14:00:32 <lindstream> zakim, I am ??P26

Niklas Lindström: zakim, I am ??P26

14:00:32 <Zakim> +lindstream; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +lindstream; got it

14:00:49 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

14:00:53 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

14:00:53 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

14:00:55 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

14:00:55 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

14:01:43 <Zakim> +??P30

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30

14:01:43 <Zakim> +Knud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Knud

14:01:46 <ShaneM> zakim, I am ??P30

Shane McCarron: zakim, I am ??P30

14:01:46 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it

14:01:50 <Knud> zakim, mute me

Knud Möller: zakim, mute me

14:01:50 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Knud should now be muted

14:02:20 <Benjamin> scribenick: Benjamin

(Scribe set to Benjamin Adrian)

14:02:53 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

14:02:53 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

14:03:19 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

14:03:19 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

14:03:21 <Zakim> -lindstream

Zakim IRC Bot: -lindstream

14:03:44 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here?

14:03:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see bergie (muted), Ivan, Benjamin, scor, gkellogg, manu1, MacTed (muted), ShaneM, Knud (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bergie (muted), Ivan, Benjamin, scor, gkellogg, manu1, MacTed (muted), ShaneM, Knud (muted)

14:03:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Knud, ShaneM, lindstream, scor, Benjamin, Zakim, RRSAgent, MacTed, ivan, bergie, manu1, gkellogg, trackbot, manu

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Knud, ShaneM, lindstream, scor, Benjamin, Zakim, RRSAgent, MacTed, ivan, bergie, manu1, gkellogg, trackbot, manu

14:04:20 <manu1> zakim, manu1 is lindstream

Manu Sporny: zakim, manu1 is lindstream

14:04:21 <Zakim> +lindstream; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +lindstream; got it

14:05:12 <Zakim> +??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26

14:05:28 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P26

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P26

14:05:31 <Zakim> +manu1; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu1; got it

14:06:02 <manu1> Topic: Jeni's Write-up / formalize issues

1. Jeni's Write-up / formalize issues

14:06:12 <manu1> http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/165

Manu Sporny: http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/165

14:06:38 <Benjamin> manu: Let's summarize Jeni's proposals on merging RDFa and Microdata

Manu Sporny: Let's summarize Jeni's proposals on merging RDFa and Microdata

14:07:38 <Benjamin> ivan: first issue is the interpretation of time element

Ivan Herman: first issue is the interpretation of time element

14:07:45 <manu1> q+ on datetime issue

Manu Sporny: q+ on datetime issue

14:08:19 <Benjamin> ... next issue is about microdata allowing link and meta elements to be used in content

... next issue is about microdata allowing link and meta elements to be used in content

14:08:40 <Benjamin> ... Jeni proposes RDFa to also allow these elements

... Jeni proposes RDFa to also allow these elements

14:09:22 <manu1> q?

Manu Sporny: q?

14:09:26 <Benjamin> ... consequently HTML+RDFa would include parts of the HTML5 content module, which is tricky

... consequently HTML+RDFa would include parts of the HTML5 content module, which is tricky

14:09:28 <manu1> ack manu1

Manu Sporny: ack manu1

14:09:28 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to comment on datetime issue

Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to comment on datetime issue

14:10:06 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:10:11 <Benjamin> manu: there is a chance that time element is going to be replaced by data elements. Data contains machine readable values about content

Manu Sporny: there is a chance that time element is going to be replaced by data elements. Data contains machine readable values about content

14:10:21 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:10:30 <Benjamin> ivan: hence, it is an open issue and we should leave it for now

Ivan Herman: hence, it is an open issue and we should leave it for now

14:10:55 <manu1> q+ to note how we follow HTML5 via HTML+RDFa

Manu Sporny: q+ to note how we follow HTML5 via HTML+RDFa

14:11:13 <Benjamin> lindstream: there is a problem with versioning issues

Niklas Lindström: there is a problem with versioning issues

14:11:52 <manu1> q-

Manu Sporny: q-

14:12:21 <lindstream> my point was that html5 is a "living spec", which supposedly won't have versioning. So the rdfa spec, having versions, might have trouble "keeping up"

Niklas Lindström: my point was that html5 is a "living spec", which supposedly won't have versioning. So the rdfa spec, having versions, might have trouble "keeping up"

14:12:41 <lindstream> np :)

Niklas Lindström: np :)

14:14:04 <lindstream> q?

Niklas Lindström: q?

14:14:12 <Benjamin> ivan: HTML allows the use of meta only if it contains microdata content. This is a bit strange.

Ivan Herman: HTML allows the use of meta only if it contains microdata content. This is a bit strange.

14:14:42 <manu1> ISSUE: Determine if RDFa should normatively state that <link> and <meta> elements are supported in flow content.

ISSUE: Determine if RDFa should normatively state that <link> and <meta> elements are supported in flow content.

14:14:42 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-104 - Determine if RDFa should normatively state that <link> and <meta> elements are supported in flow content. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/104/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-104 - Determine if RDFa should normatively state that <link> and <meta> elements are supported in flow content. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/104/edit .

14:15:07 <Benjamin> ivan: Next issue is about built in prefixes/terms.

Ivan Herman: Next issue is about built in prefixes/terms.

14:15:18 <Benjamin> ... RDFa has such a mechanism

... RDFa has such a mechanism

14:15:45 <Benjamin> ... Next issue is about the itemref functionality

... Next issue is about the itemref functionality

14:15:47 <manu1> ISSUE: Should RDFa support something like Microdata's @itemref attribute.

ISSUE: Should RDFa support something like Microdata's @itemref attribute.

14:15:47 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-105 - Should RDFa support something like Microdata's @itemref attribute. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/105/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-105 - Should RDFa support something like Microdata's @itemref attribute. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/105/edit .

14:16:12 <manu1> ISSUE: Should RDFa support the creation of ordered lists?

ISSUE: Should RDFa support the creation of ordered lists?

14:16:12 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-106 - Should RDFa support the creation of ordered lists? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/106/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-106 - Should RDFa support the creation of ordered lists? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/106/edit .

14:16:15 <Benjamin> ivan: There is an issue about the creation of ordered lists in RDFa

Ivan Herman: There is an issue about the creation of ordered lists in RDFa

14:17:18 <Benjamin> ivan: The next issue for us is about using the src attribute

Ivan Herman: The next issue for us is about using the src attribute

14:17:54 <manu1> ISSUE: Determine if @src attribute should be viewed in the object position instead of the subject position.

ISSUE: Determine if @src attribute should be viewed in the object position instead of the subject position.

14:17:55 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-107 - Determine if @src attribute should be viewed in the object position instead of the subject position. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/107/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-107 - Determine if @src attribute should be viewed in the object position instead of the subject position. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/107/edit .

14:17:56 <Benjamin> manu: the concern about this is backward compatability.

Manu Sporny: the concern about this is backward compatability.

14:18:19 <gkellogg> @src is often a problem for example markup, one of the things I noted that people often get wrong.

Gregg Kellogg: @src is often a problem for example markup, one of the things I noted that people often get wrong.

14:18:58 <Benjamin> ivan: Jeni mentions link relations, which relates to the use of terms in RDFa1.1

Ivan Herman: Jeni mentions link relations, which relates to the use of terms in RDFa1.1

14:19:22 <Benjamin> .. we might revise which terms are relevant or not

.. we might revise which terms are relevant or not

14:19:39 <manu1> ISSUE: Refine/deprecate Link relations for the RDFa 1.1 Default Profile.

ISSUE: Refine/deprecate Link relations for the RDFa 1.1 Default Profile.

14:19:40 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:19:40 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-108 - Refine/deprecate Link relations for the RDFa 1.1 Default Profile. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/108/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-108 - Refine/deprecate Link relations for the RDFa 1.1 Default Profile. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/108/edit .

14:19:51 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:20:06 <Benjamin> ... at the moment the RDFa HTML default profile still contains all tokens, which we should look at again

... at the moment the RDFa HTML default profile still contains all tokens, which we should look at again

14:20:16 <manu1> q+ to say we've discussed this before.

Manu Sporny: q+ to say we've discussed this before.

14:20:44 <Benjamin> lindstream: Jeni's problem was about the implied subject, when using these link relations.

Niklas Lindström: Jeni's problem was about the implied subject, when using these link relations.

14:20:53 <manu1> ack manu1

Manu Sporny: ack manu1

14:20:53 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to say we've discussed this before.

Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to say we've discussed this before.

14:20:56 <ShaneM> Remember that ARIA cares about some of those relationships.

Shane McCarron: Remember that ARIA cares about some of those relationships.

14:21:04 <bergie> q+

Henri Bergius: q+

14:21:08 <Benjamin> ivan: someone should lookup the list of necessary tokens in RDFa

Ivan Herman: someone should lookup the list of necessary tokens in RDFa

14:21:41 <bergie> Zakim, unmute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, unmute me

14:21:41 <Zakim> bergie should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should no longer be muted

14:21:42 <manu1> ack bergie

Manu Sporny: ack bergie

14:21:53 <Benjamin> manu: link relaitonships concern the HTML integration and should not be defined in RDFa core

Manu Sporny: link relaitonships concern the HTML integration and should not be defined in RDFa core

14:21:55 <lindstream> one example raising the subject issue is: rel="stylesheet alternate"

Niklas Lindström: one example raising the subject issue is: rel="stylesheet alternate"

14:22:57 <Benjamin> bergie: We should spend more explanations on these tokens and their relation to subjects

Henri Bergius: We should spend more explanations on these tokens and their relation to subjects

14:23:36 <bergie> Zakim, mute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, mute me

14:23:36 <Zakim> bergie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should now be muted

14:23:47 <lindstream> for the record: one way out of this "mess" *might* be the idea of letting @property capture @href/@resource if present...

Niklas Lindström: for the record: one way out of this "mess" *might* be the idea of letting @property capture @href/@resource if present...

14:23:53 <Benjamin> ivan: these are the issues we can extract from Jeni's blog

Ivan Herman: these are the issues we can extract from Jeni's blog

14:24:07 <Benjamin> manu: That is four new issues.

Manu Sporny: That is four new issues.

14:24:26 <Benjamin> manu: Any other concerns about Jeni's writeup?

Manu Sporny: Any other concerns about Jeni's writeup?

14:24:31 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-103: preserve @vocab declarations

2. ISSUE-103: preserve @vocab declarations

14:24:39 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/103

Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/103

14:24:44 <ivan> ISSUE-103?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-103?

14:24:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-103 -- Should RDFa Processors preserve @vocab declarations in the default graph? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-103 -- Should RDFa Processors preserve @vocab declarations in the default graph? -- open

14:24:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/103

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/103

14:25:34 <ivan> What about rdfa:has-vocab ?

Ivan Herman: What about rdfa:has-vocab ?

14:25:44 <lindstream> .. or rdfa:usesVocab ?

Niklas Lindström: .. or rdfa:usesVocab ?

14:25:46 <Benjamin> ivan: first thing is that the term i used in the mail was not good -- rdfa:hasVocab

Ivan Herman: first thing is that the term i used in the mail was not good -- rdfa:hasVocab

14:26:02 <ivan> <uriofrdfasource> a rdfa:source ;

Ivan Herman: <uriofrdfasource> a rdfa:source ;

14:26:07 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:26:41 <MacTed> provenance  :-)

Ted Thibodeau: provenance :-)

14:27:01 <lindstream> if used, it should be rdfa:Source (uppercase 'S')

Niklas Lindström: if used, it should be rdfa:Source (uppercase 'S')

14:27:09 <Benjamin> ivan: other thing is that a link from triples to the original source is missing. Some people complained about that.

Ivan Herman: other thing is that a link from triples to the original source is missing. Some people complained about that.

14:27:19 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:28:58 <manu1> So, the current proposal seems to be: <current-document> rdfa:hasVocabulary <iri-to-vocab> .

Manu Sporny: So, the current proposal seems to be: <current-document> rdfa:hasVocabulary <iri-to-vocab> .

14:29:05 <manu1> q+ to discuss an issue

Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss an issue

14:29:54 <lindstream> np; short version: I'm beginning to agree with Ivan's suggestion

Niklas Lindström: np; short version: I'm beginning to agree with Ivan's suggestion

14:30:15 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

14:30:22 <ivan> ack manu1

Ivan Herman: ack manu1

14:30:22 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to discuss an issue

Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to discuss an issue

14:30:44 <manu1> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

14:31:42 <gkellogg> q+

Gregg Kellogg: q+

14:31:47 <manu1> ack gkellogg

Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg

14:32:14 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:32:42 <ShaneM> q+ to say ask why the rdfs claim would matter?

Shane McCarron: q+ to say ask why the rdfs claim would matter?

14:32:53 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:34:07 <gkellogg> vocab1 { dc:title rdfs:subPropertyOf rdfs:label } vocab2 { dc:title rdfs:subPropertyOf something else}

Gregg Kellogg: vocab1 { dc:title rdfs:subPropertyOf rdfs:label } vocab2 { dc:title rdfs:subPropertyOf something else}

14:34:29 <gkellogg> … expands all use of dc:title within document

Gregg Kellogg: … expands all use of dc:title within document

14:34:50 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

14:34:52 <manu1> ack ShaneM

Manu Sporny: ack ShaneM

14:34:52 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to say ask why the rdfs claim would matter?

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to say ask why the rdfs claim would matter?

14:35:48 <Benjamin> Shane: initially, rdfs expansion was not in scope of the RDFa processor?

Shane McCarron: initially, rdfs expansion was not in scope of the RDFa processor?

14:36:04 <ShaneM> Benjamin: and it still is not

Benjamin Adrian: and it still is not [ Scribe Assist by Shane McCarron ]

14:36:25 <manu1> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

14:36:29 <lindstream> RDFS uses multiple inheritance FTW ;)

Niklas Lindström: RDFS uses multiple inheritance FTW ;)

14:37:14 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:37:47 <Benjamin> manu: finally, there is no issue with the current proposal

Manu Sporny: finally, there is no issue with the current proposal

14:38:57 <Benjamin> ivan: let's accept the proposal

Ivan Herman: let's accept the proposal

14:39:00 <gkellogg> Also generate <> a rdfa:Source when @vocab encountered?

Gregg Kellogg: Also generate <> a rdfa:Source when @vocab encountered?

14:39:12 <MacTed> +1 uses

Ted Thibodeau: +1 uses

14:39:30 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Generate a triple in the default graph when the @vocab attribute is processed: <current-document> rdfa:usesVocabulary <iri-to-vocab> .

PROPOSED: Generate a triple in the default graph when the @vocab attribute is processed: <current-document> rdfa:usesVocabulary <iri-to-vocab> .

14:39:34 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

14:39:35 <manu1> +1

Manu Sporny: +1

14:39:37 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

14:39:37 <bergie> +1

Henri Bergius: +1

14:39:37 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:39:39 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1

14:39:39 <Benjamin> +1

+1

14:39:40 <lindstream> +1

Niklas Lindström: +1

14:39:41 <Knud> +1

Knud Möller: +1

14:39:54 <manu1> RESOLVED: Generate a triple in the default graph when the @vocab attribute is processed: <current-document> rdfa:usesVocabulary <iri-to-vocab> .

RESOLVED: Generate a triple in the default graph when the @vocab attribute is processed: <current-document> rdfa:usesVocabulary <iri-to-vocab> .

14:39:55 <lindstream> Topic: Generating provenance triples

3. Generating provenance triples

14:39:55 <lindstream> and +1 to Gregg's "also rdfa:Source"

Niklas Lindström: and +1 to Gregg's "also rdfa:Source"

14:40:13 <ivan> <uriofdocument> a rdfa:Source .

Ivan Herman: <uriofdocument> a rdfa:Source .

14:40:47 <Benjamin> manu: Why is the triple useful?

Manu Sporny: Why is the triple useful?

14:40:59 <ShaneM> You need to know provenance.  I agree

Shane McCarron: You need to know provenance. I agree

14:41:12 <Benjamin> ivan: At the moment there is no way to make preserve any provenance information

Ivan Herman: At the moment there is no way to make preserve any provenance information

14:41:25 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

14:41:25 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

14:41:49 <Benjamin> .. in terms of indexing, the index should contain links to originating sources

.. in terms of indexing, the index should contain links to originating sources

14:42:01 <lindstream> Maybe rdfa:Source will mean e.g. "this resource is data markup using RDFa" ?

Niklas Lindström: Maybe rdfa:Source will mean e.g. "this resource is data markup using RDFa" ?

14:42:38 <Benjamin> MacTed: That's also how we do it in our product.

Ted Thibodeau: That's also how we do it in our product.

14:43:05 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:43:29 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:44:25 <MacTed> a look at an example...  http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/html/http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/id/entity/http/cprtheory.referata.com/wiki/Main_Page

Ted Thibodeau: a look at an example... http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/html/http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/id/entity/http/cprtheory.referata.com/wiki/Main_Page

14:44:35 <Benjamin> manu: it is not related to the vocab attribute

Manu Sporny: it is not related to the vocab attribute

14:45:54 <Benjamin> MacTed: It's about this is document the processor extracted RDFa from

Ted Thibodeau: It's about this is document the processor extracted RDFa from

14:46:15 <lindstream> btw, rdfa:Source should be a subClassOf (e.g.) foaf:Document

Niklas Lindström: btw, rdfa:Source should be a subClassOf (e.g.) foaf:Document

14:46:23 <Benjamin> ShaneM: It is a provenance concern

Shane McCarron: It is a provenance concern

14:46:57 <Benjamin> MacTed: The minimum that I need is, this is document were I got the data from.

Ted Thibodeau: The minimum that I need is, this is document were I got the data from.

14:47:31 <lindstream> .. *if* we got data from it? (Even just from rel stylesheet?)

Niklas Lindström: .. *if* we got data from it? (Even just from rel stylesheet?)

14:47:37 <Benjamin> manu: That means in every default graph of an RDFa processor a triple shuld exist that says where the data comes from

Manu Sporny: That means in every default graph of an RDFa processor a triple shuld exist that says where the data comes from

14:48:03 <Benjamin> manu: But if we merge two graphs, such triples become useless

Manu Sporny: But if we merge two graphs, such triples become useless

14:48:30 <Benjamin> MacTed: Of course you have to add graph identifiers

Ted Thibodeau: Of course you have to add graph identifiers

14:48:32 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:48:37 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:50:26 <lindstream> quads are beyond the scope of this issue...

Niklas Lindström: quads are beyond the scope of this issue...

14:52:17 <MacTed> <current graph> foaf:primaryTopic <parsed-document>

Ted Thibodeau: <current graph> foaf:primaryTopic <parsed-document>

14:52:22 <lindstream> .. are we at risk of  conflating documents and graphs here?

Niklas Lindström: .. are we at risk of conflating documents and graphs here?

14:52:35 <ivan> <base>

Ivan Herman: <base>

14:53:02 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:53:54 <MacTed> Topic: Default Graph vs. Output Graph Terminology

4. Default Graph vs. Output Graph Terminology

14:53:54 <MacTed> <graphURI> foaf:primaryTopic <htmlURI>

Ted Thibodeau: <graphURI> foaf:primaryTopic <htmlURI>

14:53:58 <gkellogg> Then we'd need to make assertions about graphs, which requires quads

Gregg Kellogg: Then we'd need to make assertions about graphs, which requires quads

14:54:13 <MacTed> <> foaf:primaryTopic <htmlURI>

Ted Thibodeau: <> foaf:primaryTopic <htmlURI>

14:54:15 <bergie> q+

Henri Bergius: q+

14:55:00 <ivan> ack lindstream

Ivan Herman: ack lindstream

14:55:40 <bergie> Zakim, unmute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, unmute me

14:55:40 <Zakim> bergie should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should no longer be muted

14:55:48 <manu1> ack bergie

Manu Sporny: ack bergie

14:55:49 <MacTed> I'm also in Provenance WG... :-)

Ted Thibodeau: I'm also in Provenance WG... :-)

14:56:27 <ShaneM> Bless you.  someone has to do it.

Shane McCarron: Bless you. someone has to do it.

14:57:10 <Benjamin> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html

http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html

14:57:10 <MacTed> <> describes <sourceURI>

Ted Thibodeau: <> describes <sourceURI>

14:57:39 <gkellogg> Only different if document has html>head>base?

Gregg Kellogg: Only different if document has html>head>base?

14:59:05 <lindstream> ... while graph identifiers enable us to "have turtles all the way down", we're within the RDFa "turtle" and should stay here.

Niklas Lindström: ... while graph identifiers enable us to "have turtles all the way down", we're within the RDFa "turtle" and should stay here.

15:00:17 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

15:00:17 <bergie> so, my proposal was not to set a source URI for a given graph, since the graph itself doesn't have an identifier

Henri Bergius: so, my proposal was not to set a source URI for a given graph, since the graph itself doesn't have an identifier

15:00:33 <bergie> but instead to just say "this subject has data coming from this RDFa document"

Henri Bergius: but instead to just say "this subject has data coming from this RDFa document"

15:00:42 <ShaneM> I agree with Ted that this is a significant terminology issue.

Shane McCarron: I agree with Ted that this is a significant terminology issue.

15:00:45 <bergie> Zakim, unmute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, unmute me

15:00:46 <Zakim> bergie was not muted, bergie

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie was not muted, bergie

15:01:02 <ShaneM> I also agree that we should have a way to reference our 'graph' in notation.

Shane McCarron: I also agree that we should have a way to reference our 'graph' in notation.

15:01:09 <bergie> Zakim, mute me

Henri Bergius: Zakim, mute me

15:01:11 <Zakim> bergie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bergie should now be muted

15:01:23 <lindstream> +1 on "output graph". But let's *not* talk about identifiers for graphs in RDFa..

Niklas Lindström: +1 on "output graph". But let's *not* talk about identifiers for graphs in RDFa..

15:01:26 <manu1> ISSUE: Resolve differences terminology for 'default graph' and 'output graph'.

ISSUE: Resolve differences terminology for 'default graph' and 'output graph'.

15:01:26 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-109 - Resolve differences terminology for 'default graph' and 'output graph'. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/109/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-109 - Resolve differences terminology for 'default graph' and 'output graph'. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/109/edit .

15:02:00 <Benjamin> ivan: processors may have difficulties in generating such provenance triples because of the lack of names for originating graphs. We don't have a mechansim to name the output graph

Ivan Herman: processors may have difficulties in generating such provenance triples because of the lack of names for originating graphs. We don't have a mechansim to name the output graph

15:02:15 <bergie> +1 lindstream, on both points

Henri Bergius: +1 lindstream, on both points

15:03:17 <Benjamin> manu: This is end of the call. We need to define additional issues

Manu Sporny: This is end of the call. We need to define additional issues

15:03:36 <manu1> ISSUE: Should RDFa Processor output a triple for the source of a graph?

ISSUE: Should RDFa Processor output a triple for the source of a graph?

15:03:36 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-110 - Should RDFa Processor output a triple for the source of a graph? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/110/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-110 - Should RDFa Processor output a triple for the source of a graph? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/110/edit .

15:03:57 <scor> The Definitive Guide to Drupal 7 book was published by Apress: http://definitivedrupal.org/ - one of the chapters I contributed is on Drupal and the Semantic Web, Linked Data and RDFa 1.0 (namespaces, prefixes, CURIEs, etc...)

Stéphane Corlosquet: The Definitive Guide to Drupal 7 book was published by Apress: http://definitivedrupal.org/ - one of the chapters I contributed is on Drupal and the Semantic Web, Linked Data and RDFa 1.0 (namespaces, prefixes, CURIEs, etc...)

15:05:45 <bergie> congrats about the book! hopefully the Drupal 8 edition will be able to talk about VIE as well :-)

Henri Bergius: congrats about the book! hopefully the Drupal 8 edition will be able to talk about VIE as well :-)

15:06:19 <Zakim> -Knud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Knud

15:06:20 <scor> thanks. sure! I still need to take a closer look at VIE though :)

Stéphane Corlosquet: thanks. sure! I still need to take a closer look at VIE though :)

15:06:25 <Zakim> -gkellogg

Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg

15:06:29 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

15:06:31 <Zakim> -scor

Zakim IRC Bot: -scor

15:06:34 <Zakim> -bergie

Zakim IRC Bot: -bergie

15:06:35 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

15:06:35 <bergie> scor: if you need any help or info, just ping me

Stéphane Corlosquet: if you need any help or info, just ping me [ Scribe Assist by Henri Bergius ]

15:06:43 <scor> alright will do!

Stéphane Corlosquet: alright will do!

15:06:48 <Benjamin> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

15:06:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-rdfa-minutes.html Benjamin

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-rdfa-minutes.html Benjamin

15:09:47 <MacTed> Named Graphs are a popular topic...   http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.08.25

Ted Thibodeau: Named Graphs are a popular topic... http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.08.25

15:10:49 <MacTed> also see  http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs

Ted Thibodeau: also see http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs

15:10:49 <MacTed> and  http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal

Ted Thibodeau: and http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal

15:11:55 <Zakim> -Benjamin

Zakim IRC Bot: -Benjamin

15:12:20 <manu1> Thanks for scribing, Benjamin!

Manu Sporny: Thanks for scribing, Benjamin!

15:13:14 <Zakim> -manu1

Zakim IRC Bot: -manu1

15:15:26 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

15:15:28 <Zakim> -lindstream

Zakim IRC Bot: -lindstream

15:15:30 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

15:15:32 <Zakim> Attendees were +358.405.25aaaa, bergie, Ivan, scor, Benjamin, gkellogg, lindstream, MacTed, Knud, ShaneM, manu1

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +358.405.25aaaa, bergie, Ivan, scor, Benjamin, gkellogg, lindstream, MacTed, Knud, ShaneM, manu1



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This revision (#2) generated 2011-08-26 09:46:55 UTC by 'ivan', comments: None