None.
14:57:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/06-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/06-rdfa-irc ←
14:57:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:57:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←
14:57:45 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
14:57:45 <trackbot> Date: 06 January 2011
14:57:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
14:58:10 <manu> Chair: Manu
14:58:35 <manu> Present: Ivan, Benjamin, Steven, Shane, Toby, Manu
14:59:56 <manu> Regrets: Nathan, MarkB
15:00:47 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←
15:00:54 <Zakim> + +1.540.961.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.961.aaaa ←
15:00:59 <manu> zakim, I am aaaa
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am aaaa ←
15:00:59 <Zakim> +manu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it ←
15:01:14 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
15:01:14 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
15:01:18 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
15:01:23 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0029.html
15:01:31 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:01:31 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:01:34 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:01:51 <Zakim> + +63.12.057.5aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +63.12.057.5aabb ←
15:02:09 <Benjamin> zakim, I am aabb
Benjamin Adrian: zakim, I am aabb ←
15:02:21 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Benjamin; got it ←
15:03:23 <Benjamin> scribenick: Benjamin
(Scribe set to Benjamin Adrian)
15:03:33 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
15:04:12 <Benjamin> manu: let's start. Any updates, changes to agenda?
Manu Sporny: let's start. Any updates, changes to agenda? ←
15:04:12 <Benjamin> No addition updates requested to be added to the agenda
No addition updates requested to be added to the agenda ←
15:04:21 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:04:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu, Steven, Ivan, Benjamin, ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu, Steven, Ivan, Benjamin, ShaneM ←
15:04:35 <manu> Topic: Work Plan for 1st Quarter of 2011
15:04:40 <manu> Here's the plan of action for the next 3 months:
Manu Sporny: Here's the plan of action for the next 3 months: ←
15:04:40 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0001.html
Manu Sporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0001.html ←
15:05:08 <Benjamin> manu: it covers January, February and March
Manu Sporny: it covers January, February and March ←
15:06:25 <Benjamin> ... Shane graciously volunteered to handle the last call comments and take us to Candidate Rec
... Shane graciously volunteered to handle the last call comments and take us to Candidate Rec ←
15:06:57 <Benjamin> ... how do we want to handle the Last Call comments?
... how do we want to handle the Last Call comments? ←
15:07:39 <Benjamin> ivan: Shane should not be overly burdened with technical issues.
Ivan Herman: Shane should not be overly burdened with technical issues. ←
15:07:39 <Benjamin> Steven: We usually triage into 3 separate categories: editorial issues, items that need further technical discussion, and things that are not technically possible or we can't handle in the time alloted to the WG.
Steven Pemberton: We usually triage into 3 separate categories: editorial issues, items that need further technical discussion, and things that are not technically possible or we can't handle in the time alloted to the WG. ←
15:08:42 <Benjamin> manu1: I created issues for almost all incoming comments, minus Jeni's comments in the past two days.
Manu Sporny: I created issues for almost all incoming comments, minus Jeni's comments in the past two days. ←
15:08:48 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/products/8
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/products/8 ←
15:09:53 <Benjamin> ShaneM: Some comments are more related to XHTML or HTML. I'll redirect XHTML comments to that spec.
Shane McCarron: Some comments are more related to XHTML or HTML. I'll redirect XHTML comments to that spec. ←
15:10:31 <Benjamin> manu1: Next step, run in parallel, is to get the RDFa API and RDF API document into better shape.
Manu Sporny: Next step, run in parallel, is to get the RDFa API and RDF API document into better shape. ←
15:15:01 <Benjamin> Manu1: In March we hope to have first implementations of RDFa 1.1 Processors, hopefully at least two, which seems very realistic given Ivan and Gregg's parsers already pretty much are RDFa 1.1 processors.
Manu Sporny: In March we hope to have first implementations of RDFa 1.1 Processors, hopefully at least two, which seems very realistic given Ivan and Gregg's parsers already pretty much are RDFa 1.1 processors. ←
15:17:25 <Benjamin> ... In March try to move to Proposed Recommendations for current RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa Working Drafts
... In March try to move to Proposed Recommendations for current RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa Working Drafts ←
15:18:01 <Benjamin> ivan: let's talk about the Primer
Ivan Herman: let's talk about the Primer ←
15:18:01 <Benjamin> manu: We're bringing a new guy, Tom Adamich, on to work on the Primer. That's going to be his primary job in the WG, so we hope to see a new Working Draft in a month or two.
Manu Sporny: We're bringing a new guy, Tom Adamich, on to work on the Primer. That's going to be his primary job in the WG, so we hope to see a new Working Draft in a month or two. ←
15:18:31 <Benjamin> ivan: what about the chartered optional cookbook?
Ivan Herman: what about the chartered optional cookbook? ←
15:19:14 <Benjamin> ... the cookbook should include RDFa API content. Therefore the deadline should be later.
... the cookbook should include RDFa API content. Therefore the deadline should be later. ←
15:19:46 <tinkster> I started gathering some potential examples for the cookbook on the WG wiki.
Toby Inkster: I started gathering some potential examples for the cookbook on the WG wiki. ←
15:19:47 <Benjamin> ivan: maybe we could collect code snippets from our discussion on a wiki page
Ivan Herman: maybe we could collect code snippets from our discussion on a wiki page ←
15:20:35 <Benjamin> ... Toby began to play with an ATOM host laguage for RDFa
... Toby began to play with an ATOM host laguage for RDFa ←
15:20:49 <Benjamin> ... we should publish that as Note
... we should publish that as Note ←
15:20:49 <Benjamin> manu: As always, I'm concerned about having enough people to work on the Cookbook, we haven't had enough so far, but Toby has started the work on the wiki. Perhaps it can stay there for the time being?
Manu Sporny: As always, I'm concerned about having enough people to work on the Cookbook, we haven't had enough so far, but Toby has started the work on the wiki. Perhaps it can stay there for the time being? ←
15:20:49 <tinkster> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/Cookbook/Examples
Toby Inkster: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/Cookbook/Examples ←
15:21:36 <tinkster> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/Atom_plus_RDFa
Toby Inkster: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/Atom_plus_RDFa ←
15:21:40 <Benjamin> manu1: let's discuss it further on the mailing list
Manu Sporny: let's discuss it further on the mailing list ←
15:22:09 <manu> Topic: Thoughts on RDF API and RDFa API Documents
15:22:17 <manu> Here are the latest RDF API and RDFa API documents:
Manu Sporny: Here are the latest RDF API and RDFa API documents: ←
15:22:17 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/ ←
15:22:24 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-api/
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-api/ ←
15:22:37 <Benjamin> manu1: Mark, Nathan and I are fairly happy with the new direction. Is everyone else more or less OK with the current direction of these documents?
Manu Sporny: Mark, Nathan and I are fairly happy with the new direction. Is everyone else more or less OK with the current direction of these documents? ←
15:23:52 <Benjamin> benjamin: i am ok, want to look deeper into the RDF API
Benjamin Adrian: i am ok, want to look deeper into the RDF API ←
15:24:04 <Benjamin> Ivan: Yes
Ivan Herman: Yes ←
15:24:04 <Benjamin> Steven: OK
Steven Pemberton: OK ←
15:24:04 <Benjamin> Shane: I'm not concerned with the documents.
Shane McCarron: I'm not concerned with the documents. ←
15:24:11 <manu> Topic: XHTML Profile document changes/management
15:24:21 <manu> manu: Toby has put together a new XHTML Profile document that includes cross-references to other vocabularies.
Manu Sporny: Toby has put together a new XHTML Profile document that includes cross-references to other vocabularies. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:24:21 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Dec/0054.html
Manu Sporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Dec/0054.html ←
15:24:40 <Benjamin> manu1: Here is the actual vocabulary:
Manu Sporny: Here is the actual vocabulary: ←
15:24:42 <manu> http://buzzword.org.uk/2010/xhtml-vocab-20101110.xhtml
Manu Sporny: http://buzzword.org.uk/2010/xhtml-vocab-20101110.xhtml ←
15:24:54 <Zakim> + +44.785.583.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.785.583.aacc ←
15:25:00 <tinkster> Zakim, aacc is me
Toby Inkster: Zakim, aacc is me ←
15:25:00 <Zakim> +tinkster; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tinkster; got it ←
15:25:31 <Benjamin> manu: could you give an overview Toby?
Manu Sporny: could you give an overview Toby? ←
15:26:05 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:26:07 <Benjamin> tinkster: I took the basic XHTML vocabulary and added cross-references to other vocabluaries like Dublin Core, Creative Commons, etc.
Toby Inkster: I took the basic XHTML vocabulary and added cross-references to other vocabluaries like Dublin Core, Creative Commons, etc. ←
15:26:39 <Benjamin> manu: This is a good thing to do.
Manu Sporny: This is a good thing to do. ←
15:26:55 <Benjamin> manu: Any concerns about this from the group?
Manu Sporny: Any concerns about this from the group? ←
15:26:56 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
15:27:07 <Benjamin> ivan: I have some comments.
Ivan Herman: I have some comments. ←
15:27:15 <tinkster> zakim, mute me
Toby Inkster: zakim, mute me ←
15:27:15 <Zakim> tinkster should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: tinkster should now be muted ←
15:27:58 <manu> q+ to discuss core vs. xhtml profiles
Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss core vs. xhtml profiles ←
15:28:10 <Benjamin> ... Many changes relate to RDFa Core rather than XHTML+RDFa.
... Many changes relate to RDFa Core rather than XHTML+RDFa. ←
15:29:01 <Benjamin> ... We have to have a well documented process about how a prefix gets into the profile
... We have to have a well documented process about how a prefix gets into the profile ←
15:30:00 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
15:30:00 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to discuss core vs. xhtml profiles
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to discuss core vs. xhtml profiles ←
15:30:05 <Benjamin> ... It's tricky to add or not add vocabularies like Dublin Core, Foaf , SIOC or Google's.
... It's tricky to add or not add vocabularies like Dublin Core, Foaf , SIOC or Google's. ←
15:30:42 <Benjamin> manu: RDFa core is supposed to be an abstract document, with Host Language specific documents defined outside of it - for example, XHTML+RDFa, HTML+RDFa, Atom+RDFa, ODF+RDFa, etc.
Manu Sporny: RDFa core is supposed to be an abstract document, with Host Language specific documents defined outside of it - for example, XHTML+RDFa, HTML+RDFa, Atom+RDFa, ODF+RDFa, etc. ←
15:31:14 <Benjamin> ivan: I disagree
Ivan Herman: I disagree ←
15:32:49 <Benjamin> ShaneM: That's okay that you disagree, but the group decided the design for RDFa Core should be abstract and shouldn't talk about Host Language conformance.
Shane McCarron: That's okay that you disagree, but the group decided the design for RDFa Core should be abstract and shouldn't talk about Host Language conformance. ←
15:34:47 <Benjamin> ivan: Yes, but RDFa Core already works with any XML language... it's already in there, you can take all conforming RDFa 1.1 processors, point them at an XML document and get triples out of it.
Ivan Herman: Yes, but RDFa Core already works with any XML language... it's already in there, you can take all conforming RDFa 1.1 processors, point them at an XML document and get triples out of it. ←
15:35:49 <Benjamin> ivan: I should be able to use the RDF distiller for any RDFa data contained in an XML document.
Ivan Herman: I should be able to use the RDF distiller for any RDFa data contained in an XML document. ←
15:36:16 <Benjamin> manu: Should we add an XML Document Conformance section into the RDFa Core document?
Manu Sporny: Should we add an XML Document Conformance section into the RDFa Core document? ←
15:36:52 <Benjamin> ShaneM: We could add a section about XML conformance.
Shane McCarron: We could add a section about XML conformance. ←
15:37:34 <Benjamin> ... Ivan your use case is a real use case. I have to think about this issue. How about testing? Do we have a core test suite?
... Ivan your use case is a real use case. I have to think about this issue. How about testing? Do we have a core test suite? ←
15:37:34 <Benjamin> manu: No, we don't have an XML-specific test-suite.
Manu Sporny: No, we don't have an XML-specific test-suite. ←
15:41:29 <Benjamin> ivan: For a given set of vocabularies (SIOC, FOAF, ...), it would be nice to have them available in all XML documents.
Ivan Herman: For a given set of vocabularies (SIOC, FOAF, ...), it would be nice to have them available in all XML documents. ←
15:41:38 <manu> q?
Manu Sporny: q? ←
15:42:07 <Benjamin> ivan: An XHTML document should have two profiles, the default profile and its own profile.
Ivan Herman: An XHTML document should have two profiles, the default profile and its own profile. ←
15:42:08 <tinkster> chances are you'd hardcode both.
Toby Inkster: chances are you'd hardcode both. ←
15:42:34 <Benjamin> ShaneM: We should not have two profiles that are required to be loaded, you have to go out to the network to get them in the worst case and there is no reason we need to make profiles depend on other profiles. Just use one profile.
Shane McCarron: We should not have two profiles that are required to be loaded, you have to go out to the network to get them in the worst case and there is no reason we need to make profiles depend on other profiles. Just use one profile. ←
15:44:12 <ShaneM> define an XML+RDFa host language
Shane McCarron: define an XML+RDFa host language ←
15:45:00 <Benjamin> ivan: How does a processor identify the host language and know which language profile to use?
Ivan Herman: How does a processor identify the host language and know which language profile to use? ←
15:45:02 <tinkster> I use media type.
Toby Inkster: I use media type. ←
15:45:52 <manu> q+ to discuss checking the vocabulary profile
Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss checking the vocabulary profile ←
15:45:55 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
15:45:55 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to discuss checking the vocabulary profile
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to discuss checking the vocabulary profile ←
15:45:55 <Zakim> manu: We can't depend on media type - you can't make the distinction on which profile to load based strictly on that. We may need to depend on the value of xmlns on the root element, or <svg> or something like that - we need to sniff the document, in other words.
Manu Sporny: We can't depend on media type - you can't make the distinction on which profile to load based strictly on that. We may need to depend on the value of xmlns on the root element, or <svg> or something like that - we need to sniff the document, in other words. [ Scribe Assist by Zakim IRC Bot ] ←
15:47:37 <manu> q+ to discuss selecting the default profile
Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss selecting the default profile ←
15:48:08 <ShaneM> XHTML+RDFa says: XHTML+RDFa documents should be labeled with the Internet Media Type "application/xhtml+xml" as defined in [RFC3236]. For further information on using media types with XHTML Family markup languages, see the informative note [XHTML-MEDIA-TYPES].
Shane McCarron: XHTML+RDFa says: XHTML+RDFa documents should be labeled with the Internet Media Type "application/xhtml+xml" as defined in [RFC3236]. For further information on using media types with XHTML Family markup languages, see the informative note [XHTML-MEDIA-TYPES]. ←
15:48:25 <Benjamin> manu: The HTML WG said that analysing the mimetpye is not the right way to identify the host language
Manu Sporny: The HTML WG said that analysing the mimetpye is not the right way to identify the host language ←
15:50:34 <Benjamin> ivan: not all document formats have a doc type
Ivan Herman: not all document formats have a doc type ←
15:50:49 <tinkster> HTML5 served as text/html can have xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
Toby Inkster: HTML5 served as text/html can have xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" ←
15:51:47 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
15:51:47 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to discuss selecting the default profile
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to discuss selecting the default profile ←
15:52:13 <Benjamin> manu: although you cannot count on it, as shown by Toby's example we should use the namespace to decide which profile to use
Manu Sporny: although you cannot count on it, as shown by Toby's example we should use the namespace to decide which profile to use ←
15:53:37 <ShaneM> I would prefer embedding rules for XML+RDFa in RDFa Core rather than a separate spec
Shane McCarron: I would prefer embedding rules for XML+RDFa in RDFa Core rather than a separate spec ←
15:54:09 <Benjamin> ... I don't know if we have a concensus about implementing the profile lookup for RDFa processors
... I don't know if we have a concensus about implementing the profile lookup for RDFa processors ←
15:54:25 <ShaneM> RDFa Core needs to have rules for discovery defined in section 4.1
Shane McCarron: RDFa Core needs to have rules for discovery defined in section 4.1 ←
15:55:05 <Benjamin> ivan: We could add an XML profile section in the RDFA Core spec
Ivan Herman: We could add an XML profile section in the RDFA Core spec ←
15:55:51 <Benjamin> manu: another XML+RDFa spec is not much more work
Manu Sporny: another XML+RDFa spec is not much more work ←
15:56:23 <Benjamin> ShaneM: We have to recharter when publishing another specification
Shane McCarron: We have to recharter when publishing another specification ←
15:56:42 <Benjamin> ... I would add it into the conformance section
... I would add it into the conformance section ←
16:00:04 <ShaneM> We need to add these as specific last call issues so we can address them
Shane McCarron: We need to add these as specific last call issues so we can address them ←
16:01:18 <tinkster> There is a difference in terms of constructing the DOM from the byte stream.
Toby Inkster: There is a difference in terms of constructing the DOM from the byte stream. ←
16:01:48 <manu> q+ to end the meeting
Manu Sporny: q+ to end the meeting ←
16:04:10 <Benjamin> ShaneM: A conformance should use information form the higher level protocol to determine the document format
Shane McCarron: A conformance should use information form the higher level protocol to determine the document format ←
16:04:15 <Benjamin> manu: Ok, so we have the following Last Call issues: 1) Determine if we want to add an XML+RDFa document conformance section to the RDFa Core specification, 2) Determine whether or not we want to have separate profile documents for RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa, 3) Determine the process for managing the profile documents, 4) Specify an algorithm for determining which profile document to use and publish it somewhere.
Manu Sporny: Ok, so we have the following Last Call issues: 1) Determine if we want to add an XML+RDFa document conformance section to the RDFa Core specification, 2) Determine whether or not we want to have separate profile documents for RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa, 3) Determine the process for managing the profile documents, 4) Specify an algorithm for determining which profile document to use and publish it somewhere. ←
16:06:29 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
16:06:30 <ivan> zakim, drop me
Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me ←
16:06:30 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected ←
16:06:31 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:06:31 <Zakim> -tinkster
Zakim IRC Bot: -tinkster ←
16:06:33 <Zakim> -manu
Zakim IRC Bot: -manu ←
16:06:33 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
16:06:35 <Benjamin> ... is it OK that I fix purely editorial issues as I go through the comments?
... is it OK that I fix purely editorial issues as I go through the comments? ←
16:06:49 <Benjamin> The group agreed that this would be fine.
The group agreed that this would be fine. ←
16:06:54 <Zakim> -Benjamin
Zakim IRC Bot: -Benjamin ←
16:06:56 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended ←
16:06:58 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.540.961.aaaa, manu, Steven, Ivan, +63.12.057.5aabb, Benjamin, ShaneM, +44.785.583.aacc, tinkster
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.540.961.aaaa, manu, Steven, Ivan, +63.12.057.5aabb, Benjamin, ShaneM, +44.785.583.aacc, tinkster ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2011-01-06 16:55:10 UTC by 'msporny', comments: 'Minor updates/fixes to the RDFa WG telecon minutes before publication'