HTML Weekly Teleconference

25 Feb 2010




<pimpbot> changes: hixie: consistency in the parser w.r.t. how steps are introduced. (whatwg r4802) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0219.html>

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: Only pop out of the current <math> or <svg> context in a case such as <svg><desc><math><b>. (whatwg r4805) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0223.html> 4** microdata; hixie: Make some algorithms things more consistent with other algorithms. (whatwg r4804) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0222.html> 4** hixie: Make some algorithms things more consistent with other algorith

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8818] Remove the srcdoc attribute <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1117.html> 4** [Bug 8966] Consider "<svg><desc><div><svg><desc><b>X" — Should we change "Pop elements from the stack of open elements until the current node is in the HTML namespace." in the in-foreign-content mode to actually be "Pop elements until there's no element in scope t <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: elements aren't stacks, they're _in_ stacks. (whatwg r4806) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0224.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9060] Add "in" into: "the user agent must act as if the element was" ...in... "a stack of open elements."" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1123.html> 4** [Bug 8722] focus behaviour should be same for canvas regions as for elements <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1121.html> 4** [Bug 9052] All DOCTYPE variants that trigger standards mode pre-H

<pimpbot> changes: 2Dapi; hixie: Change dates for publication. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0226.html> 4** microdata; hixie: Change dates for publication. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0227.html> 4** hixie: Change dates for publication. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0225.html>

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: Make <applet> more consistent with <object>. (whatwg r4807) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0228.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9016] Make parameters on applet use the same rules as object (except for codebase="")" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1126.html> 4** [Bug 9071] Handling of "[" in between-doctype-public-and-system-identifiers-state may not be ideal <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1124.html>

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: Define the obsolete permitted DOCTYPEs in the syntax section. (whatwg r4808) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0229.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9071] Handling of "[" in between-doctype-public-and-system-identifiers-state may not be ideal <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1129.html> 4** "[Bug 7616] Move requirement about obsolete doctypes" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1128.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9071] Handling of "[" in between-doctype-public-and-system-identifiers-state may not be ideal" (3 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1131.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9071] Handling of "[" in between-doctype-public-and-system-identifiers-state may not be ideal" (4 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1132.html>

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: Fix to canonical case. (whatwg r4810) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0231.html> 4** hixie: Clarify the form intro style and fix a typo. (whatwg r4809) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0230.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9043] Must the href attribute of <base> be a full URL, including http://...; if so, what is the correct terminology for that? I tried following the "valid URL" link and it goes down a rabbit hole to http://www.w3.org/html/wg/href/draft, which does not define "v <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1144.html> 4** [Bug 9045] The term "valid URL" is used here, but following the link does not lead to a definition

<pimpbot> changes: websockets; hixie: Define whether amountBuffered includes overhead or not (it does not). (whatwg r4812) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0233.html> 4** hixie: Change autobuffer to preload. (whatwg r4811) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0232.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 9083] This should mention that it includes framing overhead." (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1148.html> 4** "[Bug 8731] Consider expanding buffering control for media elements" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1146.html>

<CIA-1> v.nu-syntax: 03sideshowbarker * r535 10/trunk/relaxng/media.rnc: rename autobuffer attribute to "preload"

<pimpbot> changes: mike: sync to upstream spec rename of autobuffer attribute to "preload" <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0234.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9144] New: &#13; should expand to CR <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1150.html> 4** [Bug 9143] New: I notice that under the definition for the-i-element it says "Authors are encouraged to use the class attribute on the i element to identify why the element is being used", but there's no similar text for b. Given the Note on both, it seems you'd want to <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-b

<pimpbot> changes: hixie: Make this more readable. (whatwg r4813) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0235.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9091] <span itemprop="fn">David Junger</span> <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1155.html> 4** [Bug 9084] Opera's implementation of this treats the comma as a delimiter (i.e. if you select Abyssinian from the drop-down and type a ',' after that, it gives you the drop-down again to select another item). I like this feature but want to make sure it is interopab <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-h

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9097] Add wbr { content: "\200B"; } (ZWSP)? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1160.html> 4** [Bug 9096] Mapping U+0000 to U+FFFD regresses rendering of pages <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1159.html> 4** [Bug 9094] It should be stylable (thru CSS markup) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1158.html> 4** [Bug 9093] </p>text would

<CIA-1> v.nu-validator: 03sideshowbarker * r344 10/trunk/schema/legacy/legacy.rnc:

<CIA-1> v.nu-validator: patch from Yudai to add hr/@color as obsolete/legacy attribute (b=692)

<CIA-1> v.nu-validator: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=692

<pimpbot> Title: Bug 692 should give the obsolete message (at bugzilla.validator.nu)

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9146] New: is this useful? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1161.html>

<Philip> pimpbot: Yes, it is

<pimpbot> Philip: Huh?

<pimpbot> planet: HTML/Javascript inking or drawing control suggestions? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2334267/html-javascript-inking-or-drawing-control-suggestions>

<pimpbot> changes: mike: added "The color attribute on the hr element is obsolete. Use CSS instead" to <hr> "Additional constraints and admonitions" <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Feb/0236.html>

<CIA-1> v.nu-syntax: 03sideshowbarker * r536 10/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):

<CIA-1> v.nu-syntax: patch from Yudai to emit a "... Use CSS instead." error for obsolete hr/@color attribute (b=692)

<CIA-1> v.nu-syntax: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=692

<pimpbot> Title: Bug 692 should give the obsolete message (at bugzilla.validator.nu)

<pimpbot> planet: Can you play a <video> inside the page with Safari iPhone? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2334898/can-you-play-a-video-inside-the-page-with-safari-iphone>

<mjs> good morning

<plh> hi mjs

<plh> please check your public-html emails

<cardona507> good morning - interesting topic

<plh> trackbot-ng, start telcon

<trackbot> Date: 25 February 2010

<Julian> Zaim, +??P0 is me

<scribe> scribe: rubys

ACTION items due by Thu Feb 18


<trackbot> ACTION-29 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2010-02-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-29 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

plh: a survey was sent to the members, it is not over yet, and we will have a discussion about this topic at the AC meeting
... propose another check at the end of march... 25th

action-29 due march 29

<trackbot> ACTION-29 Follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring due date now march 29


<trackbot> ACTION-172 -- Larry Masinter to insure Change Proposal for ISSUE-4 (versioning) also covers ISSUE-84 (legacy doctype) -- due 2010-02-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/172

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-172 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: larry is not present, and the chairs have called for counter proposals.

Update on proposed publications

mjs: 6 drafts were proposed for publications; the chairs have recorded a working group decision to publish. There were a handful of objections but wide support.
... we also got the input we requested from the director, and will be submitting the transition request after the meeting

richard: did steve come forward with a caret tracking proposal?

mjs: I'm not aware of such a proposal
... any other questions on publications?

Call for Proposals that close by Thu Feb 25


<trackbot> ISSUE-82 -- Suggested replacement for head/@profile does not provide for disambiguation -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/82

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-82 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: julian has made comments, but not volunteered yet...

julian: I've looked at the text. The way it is written is hard to fix and will need to be rewritten.
... I've asked if it is appropriate for a separate spec to override the requirements that html5 has

mjs: it definitely is OK for an extension spec to override processing requirements. The RDFa spec does such.

julian: the difference is that the thing that needs to be overridden also affects documents which don't make use of profile

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9148] New: "either does not expect the user to need the media resource, but that" -- "either ... but" is wrong, this needs to be reworded. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Feb/1162.html>

julian: the new spec would need to define the extended semantics of profile, which goes beyond what HTML4 said
... I'm leaning towards deciding that a change proposal is needed.

mjs: are you volunteering?

julian: yep, give me a month

mjs: ok, we will put you down for a month from today. If you decide that a CP is not needed, simply let us know.


<trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- How accessibility works for <canvas> is unclear. -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/74

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-74 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

richard: we are close to consensus on a new attribute called adom. We need to make it a bit more generic.
... I'd like another week to address the concerns.

mjs: another week is fine, and notes that submitting does not mean that you have to stop work. It can be a solid first draft.
... we will extend it a week.

New Calls for Proposals/Consensus this Week


<trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-41 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: this is the only new proposal as we think it will be a big topic, and we already have one volunteer.
... calls for counter proposals: issues 4, 31, 80, 88
... issue 4 has already received a counter proposal
... we also wanted to give the tag a chance to provide input on 4, as they have made a specific request to be given an opportunity to do so
... calls for consensus: issues 1, 2, and 55.
... questions?

Reminders of other upcoming deadlines


<trackbot> ISSUE-56 -- Bring "URLs" section/definition and IRI specification in alignment. -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/56

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-56 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)


<trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/85

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-85 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: in both cases, the proposals are lacking details, we would like to see both by February 28th


<trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-27 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: we have support for the idea of testing the registry, but no volunteers. We either need a volunteer, or we will move forward with the change proposal as is.

<mjs> ack

mjs: worst case, if later testing uncovers something, we can treat that as new information

<Zakim> Julian, you wanted to comment on ISSUE-27

julian: the registry does not exist yet, and won't by (I guess) by the end of March

julain: I would support closing the change proposal, and reopening (if necessary) if there is new data

mjs: we have no volunteers yet, and we will give volunteers an adequate amount of time to do their task
... any other questions?

New Issues This Week

<Julian> ..."closing" as in "accepting"


<trackbot> ISSUE-103 -- XML escaping in iframe/@srcdoc -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/103

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: we have an issue already about having the srcdoc, this one is more specific dealing with the attribute in the context of xml


<trackbot> ISSUE-104 -- Clarify that mime type sniffing is optional -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/104

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-104 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

mjs: in this case, the spec defers to an IETF draft. That draft itself makes sniffing optional.
... questions or comments?

Accessibility task force

mike: richard is prepared to discuss canvas

<Laura> HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference Minutes: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/25-html-a11y-minutes.html

<pimpbot> Title: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference -- 25 Feb 2010 (at www.w3.org)

richard: we talked about issue-74 on the call already, I asked for another week.

<Laura> Consensus test on canvas change proposal survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20100225_canvas/results

richard: chaals is going to provide a proposal for alternatives to a subtree

<pimpbot> Title: Results of Questionnaire Consensus test on canvas change proposal - Web-Based Straw-poll and Balloting System (at www.w3.org)


<trackbot> ACTION-170 -- Janina Sajka to update A11Y timeline for tracker related issues -- due 2010-02-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/170

<Laura> Details element as a replacement for the summary attribute survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20100225_summary/results

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-170 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<pimpbot> Title: Results of Questionnaire Details element as a replacement for the summary attribute - Web-Based Straw-poll and Balloting System (at www.w3.org)

action-170 due in one week

<trackbot> ACTION-170 Update A11Y timeline for tracker related issues due date now in one week

<Laura> Change Proposal: Make the table summary attribute valid and conforming in HTML5 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/SummaryAttribute20100222

<pimpbot> Title: ChangeProposals/SummaryAttribute20100222 - HTML WG Wiki (at www.w3.org)

cynthia: we send a change proposal on summary to the list early last week, and we are split about 50/50. I'm not going to be able to do much more on that in the next three weeks.
... laura has an alternate proposal, I don't know if either will get consensus.
... I think you can expect an updated revision to go the TF in 3 weeks, and best case it will get consensus one week after that.

mjs: I'll record that we we ask for an update in 4 weeks

mike: there has been a lot of work on media accessiibility, we may be close to agreement on proposals shortly.
... what I need to do is put a few short surveys based on text provided to me by sylvia. We should have results by the time of the next call next week.

mjs: any other news?

cynthia: if anybody is at SxSW, I'd like to talk informally about summary...

Testing TF

<krisk> Testing task force update - I'm only on IRC not the phone

<krisk> Meet as planned on 2/22 (light attendance)

<krisk> Notes -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2010Feb/0013.html

<pimpbot> Title: [minutes] 20100224 HTML Test Suite Task Force from Philippe Le Hegaret on 2010-02-23 (public-html-testsuite@w3.org from February 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

<krisk> Mecurial is up - thanks Philippe!

<kliehm> There are 3 sessions on HTML5 at SXSW Sunday afternoon, we'll be there.

<krisk> Started to submit tests from the HTML DOM test suite

<krisk> See -> http://dev.w3.org/html5/tests/submission/Microsoft/htmldom/

<pimpbot> Title: Index of /html5/tests/submission/Microsoft/htmldom (at dev.w3.org)

<krisk> Incorrect tests will be updated upon agreement from discussions in list/meetings.

<krisk> Watch the list and meeting notes for more information

plh: user and password for Mercurial is the same as for your W3C account, no ssh keys are required

<krisk> Thats it for the status report

mjs: anything else?

Scribe for next meeting

plh: I'm willing to scribe

<cardona507> thanks everyone

mjs: we are now adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Found Date: 25 Feb 2010
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