24 Feb 2010

See also: IRC log




<glazou> LOL

<smfr> stupid AT&T

<glazou> we have regrets from dsinger, molly and bradk

<scribe> Scribenick: szilles

DG: Light agenda, mostly from last week
... we should start a discussion of coming F2F, agenda items, schedules, attendance

<scribe> Agenda: 1. Follow up on Image Position and Image Fit

<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jan/0476.html

BB: Last weeks discussion did not reach a conclusion on anything
... Elika proposes and I agree that the rule for "overflow" should be clip the overflowing parts

SMFR: I can see use cases for scrollbars or the above solution; We could go either way

EE: The author can put scroll bars on the replace element it self; e.g. a document inside an iframe. Thus there is no particular need for scroll bars on the box into which the replace element goes

SMFR: I agree with Elika's analysis; clipping makes most sense

DB: no opinion, still trying to understand it, but willing to live with the clipping proposal

Decision: Clipping is the behavior for overflow

1a. Missing "none"

EE: the answer despends on what the model is for negotiation between the box and the replaced element. I suggested one in a reply

<fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Feb/0164.html

EE: The "none' value is asserted as necessary for SVG. I am not sure that this is so.
... If CSS decides on the view box size and SVG decides how to fill it then there is no need for a 'none' value because SVG setting will be used anyway

ACTION (all) read Elika's answer above

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (all)

1c * Fit to content or padding box?

Decision: content box

1d * Don't inherit

DG: It is suggested to not inherit image-postition and image-fit

EE: the use case for inheritance is "nested object elements" but it seems to be more important to honor SVG's preserve aspect ratio

<fantasai> yes

SMFR: I am fine with no inheritance

BB: me too

Decision: Do what is best for SVG

ACTION (Elika): Find out what is best for SVG

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (Elika)

N. B. if what is best for SVG involves no inheritance, then there will be no inheritance

1d Which module does image-fit go into

EE: could move this property out of the page module into the images module which is being actively edited

BB: Paged Media should be back into CR as soon as possible

EE: The catch is that there are a bunch of open issues that will delay getting paged media done

PL: HP is implementing it now and will likely want to push this through, perhaps via me

SZ: Who will make the changes?

EE: The problem with making the changes in Paged Media, is that due to references to the CR version from other orgs we cannot move the draft back to WD

The result of this is that the "editor's draft" that is public cannot be reissued so there is a large discrepency between it and the CR draft.

SZ: it is disconcerting that someone is normatively referencing an out of date document whatever its status

EE: There was some print stuff going on at MIPC and some other org; HP could perhaps provide more detail

SZ: can we action HP to tell us what they think the constraints are on the paged media module

ACTION (PL): Get information from HP

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (PL)

1e A new 'auto' behavior

BB: I do not like it; I think we can do without it

PL: how do we get the default behaviors without it

EE: We can say that we assign the box and the content "filler" does what ever it thinks is right
... using the model above, the content filler is given the size of the area to fill and it makes the decision on how to fill it

SG: Would 'auto' be the default behavior then?

Answer: yes

DB: Because "object" is so hard to implement, perhpas we should not force that on every other kind of element

SG and DB: auto should not be the default just because it is good for "object"

DG: do you agree that a new "auto" value is needed?

<dbaron> I think <object> behavior might be a bunch of quirks... and object isn't used very much for any of this.

<dbaron> I think the right behavior for <object> might be to switch implementations to doing 'fill'.

SG and DB: no, we do not agree there is a need

Decision: the proposal for a new "auto" value is not accepted

2. Applying transitions to properties like visibility

<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0328.html

DB: I think that this is more likely a F2F topic


3. animation Fill Modes

<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jan/0443.html

SMFR: this would be in addition to animation spec to add a property 'animation-fill-mode'
... property allows author to spec whether the effect of the animation extends from now to end of delay period and how it ends

DB: How does this interact with the animation-iteration-count?

SMFR: this would apply only after the last interation

DB: With and iteration count of 3 and a fill-mode of "both"

SMFR: With a count of 3 and goes forward-backward-forward it applies to the last frame, but if the count were 2 which frame does it apply to

DB: I like it provided that with even iteration counts are explained

<dbaron> I think even iteration counts should probably mean that the from keyframe applies at both ends

<dbaron> er, even iteration counts *and* direction:alternate

SMFR: should the animation spec say anythnig about rendering when the animation event fires?

<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jan/0445.html

ACTION (SMFR); Come back with a more detailed proposal

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (SMFR);

4. Animation Timing Function property

<smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Feb/0212.html

<smfr> ACTION (smfr); Write a more detailed proposal for animation-fill-mode

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - (smfr);

<smfr> ACTION smfr; Write a more detailed proposal for animation-fill-mode

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - smfr;

<smfr> grr

SMFR: This overlaps with the 'visibility' discussion

Decision: this becomes a topic for the F2F meeting

<glazou> Percentage heights

<glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Nov/0286.html

<smfr> glazou: you're breaking up

<glazou> let me rejoin

5. Percentage height calculations

DB: I would need some time to recall this suggestion

<glazou> sorry lost phone

DG: Please gather ideas for the F2F agenda

BB: Richard Ishida has volunteered to help edit the Ruby Module and we should invite him to explain what he is doing

DG: I will arrange an invitation

<dbaron> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/BidiProposal

DB: There is a bidi proposal that the I18N WG will be discussing. This is aimed at HTML, but is likely to affect CSS as well

SZ: Should we ask Richard to update us on the bidi propoasl while at our meeting

DB: that would be good.

Adjuourn at 9:58 AM PST

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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