<trackbot> Date: 03 February 2010

<smaug> just a second

<smaug> shepazu: I think some emails I sent also to G.Smith

<scribe> scribe: travis

<scribe> scribeNick: travis

Resize Event issues

<summary> IE fires a lot of resize events as users manipulate the browser frame.

scribe: previous versions of Gecko were more conservative (fired one resize after an interval)

<scribe> ... new versions of Gecko attempt to fire resize as quickly as possible.

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: To prevent issues, a first resize event is dispatched synchronously, and subsequent events are async.

smaug: (something like that)

travis: The resize event is async.
... We should recommend that it be fired before paint, but not make it a hard requirement (otherwise, it's not really testable).

zoom

shepazu: most browsers allow a "page zoom."
... different from text size changes

<smaug> 3663

<timeless_mbp> window.screen.pixelDepth ?

(something like that)

<timeless_mbp> hrm, nope :(

<smaug> timeless_mbp: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/interfaces/base/nsIDOMWindowUtils.idl#404

<smaug> only for chrome for now

<timeless_mbp> cute

screen.deviceXDPI and screen.logicalXDPI and screen.systemXDPI.

<smaug> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=416226

IE's documentation on how to do this stuff: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc849094(VS.85).aspx

Also, a blog post on the subject: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/25/internet-explorer-8-and-adaptive-zoom.aspx

timeless_mbp: With my device, I zoom in and the browser gives me more detail because the viewport is effectively busy.
... There are ways already without a zoom event to get more detail...
... Afraid of authors hard-coding particular experiences into certain DPIs.

shepazu: My point of view: as a developer, I want to push the envelope and use resize to build those experiences.

<timeless_mbp> http://issues.hudson-ci.org/browse/HUDSON-5457

<timeless_mbp> the text at the bottom of the image attachment comes to mind

shepazu: I'll put something in the editor's draft and you can review it and we'll discuss.

travis: I would love to see scenarios from SVG as well...

<timeless_mbp> http://issues.hudson-ci.org/secure/attachment/19079/trend.png

shepazu: A scenario: inline SVG in HTML and zoom just SVG. Makes sense to be element-level zoom at that point.

<timeless_mbp> we can right click :)

<timeless_mbp> ... in mobile

<smaug> yeah, N900 right click works pretty well

timeless_mbp: From a mobile browser POV, specific zoom on one part of the page means more UI, which means more real-estate and complexity for the end-user.

shepazu: If there's a use-case out there we should at least consider it for the spec.

smaug: Is the SVG zoom something else than page-level zoom? If so, then browsers can use SVG zoom to fulfill those use cases.

<timeless_mbp> http://www.romancortes.com/blog/pure-css-coke-can/

shepazu: Will we get the same set of questions from CSS (CSS transforms) when they try to use scalar transforms.
... Let's drop this topic for now...

reentrancy

<timeless_mbp> Travis: ... ie is the wild west

<timeless_mbp> ... firefox only seems to allow two levels deep for event reentrancy

<timeless_mbp> smaug: sometimes this is a js engine recursion limit

<timeless_mbp> ... sometimes ~144 nested events

<timeless_mbp> ... was this mutation events?

<timeless_mbp> Travis: yes... using synchronous event handlers triggered from mutation events

<timeless_mbp> smaug: we do have mutation guards

<timeless_mbp> ... if the dom gets into a strange state, we just stop doing things (firing events)

<timeless_mbp> shepazu: it's not that you have a policy on events, it's that you have a threshold ?

Mutation Events and Re-entrancy

<timeless_mbp> smaug: this relates to pages being really evil with mutation events

<timeless_mbp> ... it was the source of many security issues many years ago

travis: Wondering how many levels of re-entrancy to allow, and whether we should spec this?

<scribe> ACTION: Travis to create a test page for mutation event re-entrancy [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-webapps-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-484 - Create a test page for mutation event re-entrancy [on Travis Leithead - due 2010-02-10].

<smaug> Event recursion test http://mozilla.pettay.fi/moztests/events/event_loop.html

(Thanks!)

<smaug> not for mutation events

<smaug> but just some generic event

timeless_mbp: Reason I'm calling in is because of Nokia's interest in gesture events.

<smaug> timeless_mbp: you cause some strange echo :/

<shepazu> trackbot: end telcon

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/fullfill/fulfill/
Succeeded: s/gesure/gesture/
Found Scribe: travis
Inferring ScribeNick: Travis
Found ScribeNick: travis
Default Present: Shepazu, Olli_Pettay, [Microsoft], Josh_Soref
Present: Shepazu Olli_Pettay [Microsoft] Josh_Soref

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 03 Feb 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-webapps-minutes.html
People with action items: travis