Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference

03 Feb 2010

See also: IRC log


DKA, +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, [IPcaller], MacTed, Carine, melvster, yoshiaki, tpa, +39.011.228.aabb, hhalpin, +03120485aacc, rreck, claudio, cperey, pchampin, +1.314.683.aadd, alardw, eschnou


<trackbot> Date: 03 February 2010

<eschnou> we are trying to call in (eschnou and alardw) but get disconnected..

<hhalpin> MacTed or Yoshi?

I scribe

<hhalpin> Thanks yoshi!

<hhalpin> like...

<hhalpin> hhalpin: saying stuff

<caribou> Scribe: yoshiaki

<hhalpin> \me when you don't want to retype the name, just type ... blah blah

<hhalpin> ... more stuff

<DKA> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/27-swxg-minutes.html

<hhalpin> PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 27 January 2010 as a true record

<hhalpin> +1

<tpa> +1

<AnitaD> I can try

<hhalpin> APPROVED: SWXG WG Weekly -- 27 January 2010 as a true record

<tpa> ok

who is speaking now?

<rreck> +1 meet again

hhalpin: next agenda is micropayment.

<hhalpin> APPROVED: meeting again Wed. February 10th: Micropayments

<hhalpin> Doug Schepers and Manu Sporny

<hhalpin> OK...

Action Reminders

<hhalpin> we're skipping to get straight to talk

Anita Doehler, Eschnou and Alar on OneSocialWebAnita Doehler and Daniel Appelquist on OneSocialWeb

hhalpin: I am working at mailing list and know many kinds of works of social web.

Eschnow: I quickly explain my work.
... distirbuted social web is work well for everyone.
... how we look social web is identify openID, acitivity streams,,,,
... realize social web requires identity, security, and etc.
... there's no clear solution and old technologies is not enough.
... all elements of XMPP is related to social profile and exchange social activities.
... we make people in touch with each other

<melvster> http://onesocialweb.org/docs-protocol.html

Eschnow: we wrote source code by the end of the March and open it.

<tpa> The screenlast link at the bottom does not work

<tpa> 404s on Github

<alardw> Link to website: http://onesocialweb.org/index-live.html

<melvster> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGLcEN9hFw0

<melvster> screencast

Eschnow: screencast is server side component
... one social web service to web client
... screencast is one instance of server for any social network to show timeline.
... push to all client server
... i post my activities with one distributed identfier like XMPP and other
... we define in activity streams xml name space and we can provide data model and name space.

cperey: do you extend XMPP and activity streams/

Eschnou: yes. we want to XMPP community welcome our extension.
... we respect each data models, activity streams; compact model and others.

hhalpin: we want to ask use case
... with XMPP and data models you do not need http, smtp.
... for web application, diffent kind of interection model, very interesting
... question about privacy control

Eschnou: you can be public and privately update status.
... you can pinpoint tag people for access control
... you can control access of everyone.

<hhalpin> there are some interesting standards for tags

hhalpin: you repeatedly refer tag.

<hhalpin> so the tag is the way of doing access control - good idea!

<hhalpin> I'll get CommonTag and TagCommons on a future telecon

Eschnou: we develop tagging apis

<Zakim> tpa, you wanted to comment on Privacy filters, Implementation constraints (I can wait a while)

<hhalpin> will get Peter on the call...

<hhalpin> to deal with tag ambiguity

<hhalpin> i.e. if two different people use the same tag for access

tpa: what kind of protocol developpers use?
... each social application use different protocol

Eschnou: there is transport protocol, example is activity stereams.

<hhalpin> thanks for opensourcing this!

Eschnou: write xml perser for activity streams and java editor.

<bblfish> interesting to compare this with P2P preso by Kalman Graffi http://is.gd/7CMm at Dagstuhl last week, which is also a P2P java based system

<hhalpin> does that count gmail? the 100 million number

Eschnou: XMPP activities use community's effort.
... open fire bloging.

<melvster> i run an openfire server, ill see if i can run this ...

Eschnou: XMPP is easy to build implementation.
... open stack helps us to access other social application's data.

<tpa> yup

<bblfish> sorry should have been http://is.gd/7CMm7

carine: you mension some access control language

<bblfish> so: P2P preso by Kalman Graffi http://is.gd/7CMm7

Eschnou: there is XML base access control but it is too complex.
... most of element of protcol is not mature, so we want feedback.

claudio: question about android version

Eschnou: we are wainting the platform get to be stable.
... we are intend to create with html and javascript by end of march.
... Android's architecture is different from iPhone.
... XMPP runs stable on android and use less battery power.

hhalpin: what's your feeling about of future of standard XMPP based?
... do you found XMPP foundation, or collaborate with W3C?

Eschnou: most of use case needs more extention.
... google wave shows us XMPP is application.
... google wave has very simple protocol.
... XMPP and activity stream change social application.

<bblfish> access control on wave is very difficult

Eschnou: but we don't want to users type their status.
... google has not propose security of wave's client
... server have to no data in servers.
... google wave is not centralize.
... all the data together in one server or another. all your activities, all your media asset is aggregated in the server.
... you can download source code for server, and use outside of the internet.
... you can keep several server and each server can be used for different usage.

bblfish: Question about P2P server?
... when document exchange, is document duplicated?

<DKA> :)

bblfish: when requesting document, we have layer for document exchange?
... http or smtp is basic system? and how is semantics?

eschnou: semantics is needed in application layer.

bblfish: XMPP is http P2P system?

eschnou: there is fantastic conversation in public mailing list.

<melvster> question: should we cross post to the onesocialweb mailing list?

<cperey> where is the One Social Web mailing list?

<melvster> http://groups.google.com/group/onesocialweb?lnk=srg

<melvster> one social web mailing list

melvster: question about high level principle of social web

<bblfish> So the first part was to compare three systems HTTP, XMPP, P2P based mentioned above.

<bblfish> All three have the following elements:

<bblfish> - a document exchange protocol

<bblfish> - a syntax (or more in the case of HTTP) for exchanging docs

<bblfish> - semantics associated with the docs

<alardw> thanks everyone would there be any further questions please ping us

<bblfish> ( - and behavior associated with message requests )

hhalpin: we have to re-schedule agenda about micropayment.
... and other agenda

<bblfish> from this an intersting point comes up: that at least the semantics between XMPP, HTTP, and other systems can be agreed upon

<rreck> thanks for presenting

<bblfish> ie, any social networking service should be able to interoperate at the semantic layer

<melvster> thanks

thank you!

<DKA> Thanks all!

<eschnou> thanks everyone for the questions and feedback !

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/02/03 17:44:54 $

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Default Present: DKA, +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, [IPcaller], MacTed, Carine, melvster, yoshiaki, tpa, +39.011.228.aabb, hhalpin, +03120485aacc, rreck, claudio, cperey, pchampin, +1.314.683.aadd, alardw, eschnou
Present: DKA +1.510.931.aaaa anita [IPcaller] MacTed Carine melvster yoshiaki tpa +39.011.228.aabb hhalpin +03120485aacc rreck claudio cperey pchampin +1.314.683.aadd alardw eschnou
Found Date: 03 Feb 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-swxg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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