02 Feb 2010

See also: IRC log


joakim, tmichel, tobiasb, pchampin, chris, Daniel, John_Strassner


hi all

<joakim> ok

<joakim> on my way in again

<joakim> Chris is guilty!

<joakim> No no, we need him

<scribe> scribe: pchampin

Agenda review and approval of previous minutes telecon

minutes of the last meeting approved


Selection of scribe for next meeting

<joakim> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Main_Page

joakim: any volunteer for next week (2010-02-09)?

pchampin: the scribe list is actually on the main page

Daniel: we don't have a scribe for next week

Thierry: I can't next week, but I volunteer for the following week (2010-02-16)

<tmichel> right my rerets for next week.

<chris> I will not be available either next week

Florian: I will scribe next week

Presenation of new participants: John Strassner and Ashish Chawla

John: I sent an email to the list
... full professor in South Korea
... chair or co-chair of several orga: IETF, IEEE...
... autonomic(?) communications
... expertise: knowledge engineering

Somebody: ring, ring, ring

<chris> I will follow the phone conf through IRC

John: ... (covered by ringing)

<tmichel> joakim is noisy ;-)

<chris> sorry for the noise

joakim: what is your interest in the WG?

john: teaching graduiate level course on semantic reasoning
... about 1/ covering various knowledge representations
... 2/ decision making (inferencing)
... e.g. using ontologies
... 2 PhD students interested in knowledge engineering
... worked for Motorola in the advance used of annotation
... for context-aware functionality
... I'm known for network management
... but have never been satisfied by the tools used
... so looking for better ontologies, better semiotics in the network management field
... volunteer to take action items or participate in editing documents

joakim: thanks for joining

john: was invited by Daniel

joakim: is Ashish here?

<joakim> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open

joakim: apparently not

action items


<trackbot> ACTION-124 -- Felix Sasaki to check - everybody responsible for a format: add a column describing syntactic information ("data types", see cable lab column "Type") to his table -- due 2009-06-16 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/124

<scribe> ongoing

close action-196

<trackbot> ACTION-196 update scribe list closed

Discussion a web based implementation of the test suite

joakim: sent an email proposing to use XML as an input format

pchampin: didn't have time this week to have a look at it

<Daniel> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-test-methodology-20100128/

<scribe> ACTION: pchampin to read and sumarize test-methodolofy for the group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-208 - Read and sumarize test-methodolofy for the group [on Pierre-Antoine Champin - due 2010-02-09].

<Daniel> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Jan/0059.html

pchampin: two problems for implementations:

1/ extract the legacy metadata from the original format

2/ map that metadata to the vocabulary

joakim: the testsuite should be about 2/

<joakim> if we provide the legacy md in an artifical format the test will not be fair

<chris> I agree with joakim that the testsuite should be about 2/

pchampin: I agree too

<chris> We wouldn't suggest a specific XML parser either to extract information from the XML metadata

pchampin: but I don't think its is practical to separate the two in an implementation

<chris> so I dont think it would be good to specify specific software libraries for the embedded metadata

pchampin: anyway, implementations will *have* to do 1/

<chris> indeed

pchampin: assume that an implementation does the mapping correctly
... but extracts the metadata in a wrong way
... would we like it to pass the tests?
... because in a real situation, it would not give the expected results

joakim: the metadata formats are various: XML-based, binary...
... there are several cases to deal with

<joakim> the test should deal with the md as in the "WILD!"

pchampin: yes, but I suggest we provide "ecological" metadata rather than artifical metadata

<chris> I agree, it is the responsibility of the implementation to get the embedded metadata out a file and to map it accordingly

<chris> so this should be part of the testsuite

<chris> maybe we can make two different test suites, one for embbeded metadata and one for external metadata?

pchampin: I am favorable to providing the "extracted" metadata

<florian> +1

pchampin: just for the implementors to check that they are extracting the metadata in a consistent way
... but they are expected to run the test on the "real" format

<joakim> Should we provide the test with both media file and extracted md?


<florian> +1

pchampin: furthermore, it would allow us to detect errors in the test suites

<joakim> thierry?

florian: I like the idea, but will the W3C like it?

pchampin: I'll tell you when I have read the document

<joakim> Chris?

<joakim> Chris can you call in again?

library discussion

florian: suggested that the Caliph project could be used to extract metadata

joakim: I had a quick look at their web page
... it's interesting

florian: the focus is on annotation
... though they have support for extraction
... and it is opensource
... currently worling on cophir

<florian> http://cophir.isti.cnr.it/

florian: photos from flickr
... extract MPEG7 features
... with a link to the image
... we are working to setup a crawler
... and also extract DC metadata

joakim: where do you get the MPEG-7 features?

florian: they are provided by the cophir testsuite
... we could use this as a base for our testsuites
... this is a student work, so I don't know when it will be finished

<Daniel> Florian: what application this project is targetting for ?

florian: just building the crawler
... to provide the images with DC and MPEG7 metadata

daniel: what about exif?

florian: out of scope for the student, as exif can be extracted directly from the jpeg

joakim: so the task of the student is to fill in the gap?

<chris> the semantic gap?

florian: yes, we extract legacy md from the flickr API, and map it to DC
... and MPEG7 (?)

<joakim> not semantic gap!

florian: I'll write to Chris about it :)

<florian> Chris, we only use the id of an image to extract metadata using the flickr api - this extracted metadata will be stored in DC and MPEG-7

<scribe> ACTION: florian to share his image metadata with the group (when he has it) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-209 - Share his image metadata with the group (when he has it) [on Florian Stegmaier - due 2010-02-09].

<chris> ok

<florian> and the IDs are stored in the COPHIR test suite wit the mpeg-7 low level features

next next F2F in Vienna

florian: last week of april

daniel: we already had a straw poll, there should not be problems

<tmichel> I will participate

daniel: who is supposed to participate in the Seoul meeting?

<tmichel> to Seoul

<chris> I will be there

joakim: will online presence be possible in Seoul?

tmichel: shall I reserve a phone bridge?

daniel: yes

<joakim> Chris will you join next telcon?

joakim: we will discuss the API document next week

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: florian to share his image metadata with the group (when he has it) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: pchampin to read and sumarize test-methodolofy for the group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/02/02 13:01:59 $

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/ergonomic/autonomic/
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Succeeded: s/PROJECT/cophir/
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Found Scribe: pchampin
Inferring ScribeNick: pchampin
Present: joakim tmichel tobiasb pchampin chris Daniel John_Strassner

WARNING: No meeting title found!
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<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 02 Feb 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html
People with action items: florian pchampin

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