<kasei> Present: kasei, Lee_Feigenbaum, pgearon, MattPerry, Sandro, cbuilara
13:56:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/23-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/23-sparql-irc ←
13:56:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:56:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
13:56:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
13:56:50 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:56:50 <trackbot> Date: 23 October 2012
13:56:50 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
13:56:51 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
13:57:18 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
13:57:19 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0089.html
13:57:22 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0089.html
Lee Feigenbaum: LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0089.html ←
13:57:33 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Chime, Andy, Steve, Birte
13:59:10 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
13:59:13 <LeeF> zakim, code?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, code? ←
13:59:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), LeeF ←
13:59:17 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
13:59:20 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum ←
13:59:56 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
14:00:11 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aaaa ←
14:00:12 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.603.897.aaaa ←
14:00:14 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: -Lee_Feigenbaum ←
14:00:46 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aabb ←
14:00:57 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum ←
14:01:01 <MattPerry> zakim, aabb is me
Matthew Perry: zakim, aabb is me ←
14:01:02 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry; got it ←
14:01:21 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:01:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, MattPerry, Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, MattPerry, Lee_Feigenbaum ←
14:01:39 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
14:01:40 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
14:01:44 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P11 is me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P11 is me ←
14:01:44 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it ←
14:02:10 <kasei> Zakim, who is talking?
Gregory Williams: Zakim, who is talking? ←
14:02:20 <Zakim> kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cbuilara (84%)
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cbuilara (84%) ←
14:03:18 <LeeF> scribenick: kasei
(Scribe set to Gregory Williams)
14:03:18 <kasei> scribenick: kasei
14:03:36 <kasei> topic: admin
14:04:09 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09
PROPOSED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09 ←
14:04:46 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09
RESOLVED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09 ←
14:05:13 <sandro> regrets next week -- tpac
Sandro Hawke: regrets next week -- tpac ←
14:05:20 <kasei> LeeF: next meeting 30 october, with dst changes
Lee Feigenbaum: next meeting 30 october, with dst changes ←
14:05:30 <kasei> ... an hour earlier in europe (?)
... an hour earlier in europe (?) ←
14:05:46 <kasei> sandro: an hour later
Sandro Hawke: an hour later ←
14:06:13 <sandro> later
Sandro Hawke: later ←
14:06:15 <kasei> ... you're right. earlier.
... you're right. earlier. ←
14:06:26 <LeeF> Next meeting the 30th October -- ONE HOUR EARLIER OUTSIDE OF THE US
Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting the 30th October -- ONE HOUR EARLIER OUTSIDE OF THE US ←
14:06:42 <kasei> LeeF: who will be at TPAC?
Lee Feigenbaum: who will be at TPAC? ←
14:06:53 <LeeF> topic: Comments
14:07:17 <kasei> LeeF: Andy asked on the list about handling comments.
Lee Feigenbaum: Andy asked on the list about handling comments. ←
14:07:42 <kasei> ... get approval if necessary. For simple questions, clarifications, typo fixes, the appropriate person can just reply without group approval.
... get approval if necessary. For simple questions, clarifications, typo fixes, the appropriate person can just reply without group approval. ←
14:08:14 <kasei> Lee summarizes recent test threads.
Lee summarizes recent test threads. ←
14:09:23 <kasei> LeeF: MINUS test comment probably looking for clarification. I think the test is fine, but nobody swapped in on this right now.
Lee Feigenbaum: MINUS test comment probably looking for clarification. I think the test is fine, but nobody swapped in on this right now. ←
14:09:51 <kasei> ... not the right people on the phone to deal with these comments. Tabled until next week.
... not the right people on the phone to deal with these comments. Tabled until next week. ←
14:10:32 <kasei> LeeF: any questions/comments about comments?
Lee Feigenbaum: any questions/comments about comments? ←
14:11:17 <kasei> LeeF: going to publish on Nov 6th after TPAC.
Lee Feigenbaum: going to publish on Nov 6th after TPAC. ←
14:11:30 <kasei> ... i18n going to do a quick review of document(s).
... i18n going to do a quick review of document(s). ←
14:11:50 <kasei> ... if they don't find any issues, we will publish PR except for protocol, entailment, gsp.
... if they don't find any issues, we will publish PR except for protocol, entailment, gsp. ←
14:12:17 <kasei> ... if they want to do a full review (be end of november), we'll move all docs to CR with 3 week review period, moving to PR in December.
... if they want to do a full review (be end of november), we'll move all docs to CR with 3 week review period, moving to PR in December. ←
14:12:34 <kasei> ... sandro, axel, and myself will do heavy lifting, but would like some help from editors.
... sandro, axel, and myself will do heavy lifting, but would like some help from editors. ←
14:12:48 <kasei> ... including "changes since last call" section in the documents.
... including "changes since last call" section in the documents. ←
14:13:04 <sandro> <div id="changes-since-lc"> .... </div> please
Sandro Hawke: <div id="changes-since-lc"> .... </div> please ←
14:13:19 <kasei> ... sandro did his best effort identifying the changes, but would like editors to insert section with common anchor name.
... sandro did his best effort identifying the changes, but would like editors to insert section with common anchor name. ←
14:13:38 <kasei> ... also would like editors to validate/correct changes.
... also would like editors to validate/correct changes. ←
14:13:52 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Transition_Request_Oct_2012#Status_Sections.2C_Changes_since_Last_Call
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Transition_Request_Oct_2012#Status_Sections.2C_Changes_since_Last_Call ←
14:13:52 <kasei> sandro: I did my best to collect the changes. I had to hand wave a bit and didn't understand everything.
Sandro Hawke: I did my best to collect the changes. I had to hand wave a bit and didn't understand everything. ←
14:14:04 <kasei> ... please express changes better if I didn't get it quite right.
... please express changes better if I didn't get it quite right. ←
14:14:17 <kasei> LeeF: I'll follow up with the editors.
Lee Feigenbaum: I'll follow up with the editors. ←
14:14:32 <kasei> kasei: I can do it for SD
Gregory Williams: I can do it for SD ←
14:14:50 <kasei> LeeF: Axel said he can do it for update.
Lee Feigenbaum: Axel said he can do it for update. ←
14:14:53 <cbuilara> yes, I can
Carlos Buil Aranda: yes, I can ←
14:14:59 <kasei> cbuilara: can do it for federated query.
Carlos Buil Aranda: can do it for federated query. ←
14:15:11 <kasei> LeeF: I will follow up with AndyS and bglimm.
Lee Feigenbaum: I will follow up with AndyS and bglimm. ←
14:15:40 <kasei> LeeF: the only change in protocol was the fault discussion media type issue, right?
Lee Feigenbaum: the only change in protocol was the fault discussion media type issue, right? ←
14:15:55 <kasei> kasei: yes.
Gregory Williams: yes. ←
14:16:18 <kasei> LeeF: I'll also follow up with chimezie.
Lee Feigenbaum: I'll also follow up with chimezie. ←
14:16:32 <kasei> sandro: the stylistic change is not to list the changes in the status of the document, but instead in the appendix.
Sandro Hawke: the stylistic change is not to list the changes in the status of the document, but instead in the appendix. ←
14:16:44 <kasei> ... I want that so the status can be the same for every document.
... I want that so the status can be the same for every document. ←
14:17:00 <kasei> LeeF: any questions about publications?
Lee Feigenbaum: any questions about publications? ←
14:17:34 <kasei> ... once we go to PR, talk to your AC rep and make sure they express support for the documents advancing. Will talk more about that later.
... once we go to PR, talk to your AC rep and make sure they express support for the documents advancing. Will talk more about that later. ←
14:17:54 <kasei> topic: entailment regimes
14:18:23 <kasei> LeeF: we talked about the chances of moving all docs from CR to PR.
Lee Feigenbaum: we talked about the chances of moving all docs from CR to PR. ←
14:18:33 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0095.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0095.html ←
14:18:52 <kasei> Lee summarizes bglimm's entailment status summary.
Lee summarizes bglimm's entailment status summary. ←
14:19:41 <kasei> LeeF: chimezie suggested we'd only have one RIF implementation.
Lee Feigenbaum: chimezie suggested we'd only have one RIF implementation. ←
14:19:48 <kasei> sandro: I think pgearon has one, too?
Sandro Hawke: I think pgearon has one, too? ←
14:19:56 <kasei> pgearon: I haven't been able to get near it recently.
Paul Gearon: I haven't been able to get near it recently. ←
14:20:18 <kasei> ... I'm the sole implementor, but has been removed from the codebase we work on. Doing completely unrelated stuff at the moment.
... I'm the sole implementor, but has been removed from the codebase we work on. Doing completely unrelated stuff at the moment. ←
14:20:42 <kasei> sandro: then this would reamin in the spec, but as informative.
Sandro Hawke: then this would reamin in the spec, but as informative. ←
14:21:02 <kasei> LeeF: when we publish, we need to mark these sections as at risk and that they may not become normative.
Lee Feigenbaum: when we publish, we need to mark these sections as at risk and that they may not become normative. ←
14:21:51 <kasei> LeeF: once a 2nd or 3rd implementation comes along, if problems are discovered, it would be easier to change. But not much practical difference (same as problems being found in RDFS).
Lee Feigenbaum: once a 2nd or 3rd implementation comes along, if problems are discovered, it would be easier to change. But not much practical difference (same as problems being found in RDFS). ←
14:22:07 <kasei> sandro: can see people suggesting we should publish it as a note instead of inline in the document.
Sandro Hawke: can see people suggesting we should publish it as a note instead of inline in the document. ←
14:22:39 <kasei> LeeF: guess it will be fine. the market will see if people end up using it.
Lee Feigenbaum: guess it will be fine. the market will see if people end up using it. ←
14:23:37 <kasei> LeeF: we need a WG decision to mark these sections at risk.
Lee Feigenbaum: we need a WG decision to mark these sections at risk. ←
14:24:03 <kasei> q+
q+ ←
14:25:27 <kasei> kasei: do these entailment sections have tests in the test suite?
Gregory Williams: do these entailment sections have tests in the test suite? ←
14:25:41 <sandro> looking at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/
Sandro Hawke: looking at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/ ←
14:25:52 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each
PROPOSED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each ←
14:25:54 <kasei> LeeF: I believe chimezie said so in his email, but only going to CR at this point, so will need them in the future.
Lee Feigenbaum: I believe chimezie said so in his email, but only going to CR at this point, so will need them in the future. ←
14:26:16 <kasei> +1
+1 ←
14:26:17 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
Sandro Hawke: +1 (W3C) ←
14:26:25 <MattPerry> +1
Matthew Perry: +1 ←
14:26:25 <LeeF> +1
Lee Feigenbaum: +1 ←
14:26:37 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each
RESOLVED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each ←
14:26:50 <kasei> LeeF: will ask bglimm to make these changes.
Lee Feigenbaum: will ask bglimm to make these changes. ←
14:26:57 <LeeF> ACTION: Birte to mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc
ACTION: Birte to mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc ←
14:26:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-702 - Mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-10-30].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-702 - Mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-10-30]. ←
14:27:07 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to notify editors about Changes Since LC section
ACTION: Lee to notify editors about Changes Since LC section ←
14:27:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-703 - Notify editors about Changes Since LC section [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-703 - Notify editors about Changes Since LC section [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30]. ←
14:27:20 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to notify Birte about ACTION-702
ACTION: Lee to notify Birte about ACTION-702 ←
14:27:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-704 - Notify Birte about ACTION-702 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-704 - Notify Birte about ACTION-702 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30]. ←
14:27:36 <kasei> topic: GSP
14:27:57 <kasei> LeeF: was going to ask for the status, but chimezie isn't here.
Lee Feigenbaum: was going to ask for the status, but chimezie isn't here. ←
14:28:18 <kasei> ... do we have one full implementation?
... do we have one full implementation? ←
14:28:25 <kasei> sandro: I believe chimezie does.
Sandro Hawke: I believe chimezie does. ←
14:28:51 <kasei> LeeF: Andy implemented most of GSP, but not POSTing triples to graph store.
Lee Feigenbaum: Andy implemented most of GSP, but not POSTing triples to graph store. ←
14:29:07 <kasei> ... behavior of his system is different from what GSP wants.
... behavior of his system is different from what GSP wants. ←
14:29:28 <kasei> ... does anybody intend to implement GSP?
... does anybody intend to implement GSP? ←
14:29:37 <pgearon> eventually
Paul Gearon: eventually ←
14:29:48 <kasei> sandro: ericP may have or is close to an implementation.
Sandro Hawke: ericP may have or is close to an implementation. ←
14:29:52 <pgearon> and the guys here have already done some portion of it
Paul Gearon: and the guys here have already done some portion of it ←
14:29:59 <kasei> LeeF: we intend to do it in Anzo, but would have to ask about the timeframe.
Lee Feigenbaum: we intend to do it in Anzo, but would have to ask about the timeframe. ←
14:30:16 <kasei> sandro: my concern is whether Andy's concern speaks to the design of the GSP spec.
Sandro Hawke: my concern is whether Andy's concern speaks to the design of the GSP spec. ←
14:30:49 <kasei> LeeF: my opinion is that I'm comfortable with the design. It's a useful design. But I haven't thought through the design space.
Lee Feigenbaum: my opinion is that I'm comfortable with the design. It's a useful design. But I haven't thought through the design space. ←
14:31:08 <kasei> sandro: concerned that this is something that should have been raised before sending GSP to last call.
Sandro Hawke: concerned that this is something that should have been raised before sending GSP to last call. ←
14:32:26 <kasei> sandro: not an option to leave as CR. if we don't get enough implementations, we'd turn it into a Note.
Sandro Hawke: not an option to leave as CR. if we don't get enough implementations, we'd turn it into a Note. ←
14:32:41 <kasei> LeeF: any other thoughts on this?
Lee Feigenbaum: any other thoughts on this? ←
14:33:19 <kasei> topic: Protocol
14:34:29 <kasei> kasei: two full implementations
Gregory Williams: two full implementations ←
14:35:03 <kasei> ... now reflected on the implementation report.
... now reflected on the implementation report. ←
14:35:14 <kasei> LeeF: will try to reach out to implementors outside the WG
Lee Feigenbaum: will try to reach out to implementors outside the WG ←
14:35:32 <kasei> ... BigData, AllegroGraph, YarcData
... BigData, AllegroGraph, YarcData ←
14:35:43 <kasei> q+
q+ ←
14:36:00 <LeeF> ack kasei
Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei ←
14:38:33 <kasei> kasei: talked a bit with the Stardog guys. got entailment resutls, but they didn't want to publish other tests.
Gregory Williams: talked a bit with the Stardog guys. got entailment resutls, but they didn't want to publish other tests. ←
14:38:38 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans
ACTION: Lee to reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans ←
14:38:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-705 - Reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-705 - Reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30]. ←
14:41:38 <kasei> LeeF: when we go to PR, should reach out to implementors.
Lee Feigenbaum: when we go to PR, should reach out to implementors. ←
14:42:39 <LeeF> ACTION: Axel and Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon
ACTION: Axel and Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon ←
14:42:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-706 - And Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-30].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-706 - And Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-30]. ←
14:42:49 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
Zakim IRC Bot: -Lee_Feigenbaum ←
14:42:57 <kasei> kasei: we should create a tarball of the tests so that implementors don't have to crawl the test suite web space.
Gregory Williams: we should create a tarball of the tests so that implementors don't have to crawl the test suite web space. ←
14:43:00 <LeeF> I think we're done anyway
Lee Feigenbaum: I think we're done anyway ←
14:43:04 <LeeF> Anyone have any other business?
Lee Feigenbaum: Anyone have any other business? ←
14:43:21 <kasei> (silence)
(silence) ←
14:43:23 <LeeF> If no other business, then let's adjourn
Lee Feigenbaum: If no other business, then let's adjourn ←
14:43:25 <pgearon> nothing here
Paul Gearon: nothing here ←
14:43:28 <LeeF> thanks for scribing, Greg
Lee Feigenbaum: thanks for scribing, Greg ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2012-10-23 14:47:56 UTC by 'gwilliam', comments: 'Cleaned up.'