Chatlog 2012-10-23

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<kasei> Present: kasei, Lee_Feigenbaum, pgearon, MattPerry, Sandro, cbuilara
13:56:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:56:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/23-sparql-irc
13:56:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:56:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:56:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:50 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:56:50 <trackbot> Date: 23 October 2012
13:56:50 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:56:51 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:57:18 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
13:57:19 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0089.html
13:57:22 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0089.html
13:57:33 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Chime, Andy, Steve, Birte
13:59:07 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
13:59:10 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:59:13 <LeeF> zakim, code?
13:59:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), LeeF
13:59:17 <Zakim> +kasei
13:59:20 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
13:59:56 <Zakim> +pgearon
14:00:11 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa
14:00:12 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aaaa
14:00:14 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
14:00:46 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb
14:00:57 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
14:01:01 <MattPerry> zakim, aabb is me
14:01:02 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
14:01:21 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:01:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, MattPerry, Lee_Feigenbaum
14:01:22 <cbuilara> cbuilara has joined #sparql
14:01:39 <Zakim> +??P11
14:01:40 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:01:44 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P11 is me
14:01:44 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:02:10 <kasei> Zakim, who is talking?
14:02:20 <Zakim> kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cbuilara (84%)
14:03:18 <LeeF> scribenick: kasei
14:03:18 <kasei> scribenick: kasei
14:03:36 <kasei> topic: admin
14:04:09 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09
14:04:46 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09
14:05:13 <sandro> regrets next week -- tpac
14:05:20 <kasei> LeeF: next meeting 30 october, with dst changes
14:05:30 <kasei> ... an hour earlier in europe (?)
14:05:46 <kasei> sandro: an hour later
14:06:13 <sandro> later
14:06:15 <kasei> ... you're right. earlier.
14:06:26 <LeeF> Next meeting the 30th October -- ONE HOUR EARLIER OUTSIDE OF THE US
14:06:42 <kasei> LeeF: who will be at TPAC?
14:06:53 <LeeF> topic: Comments
14:07:17 <kasei> LeeF: Andy asked on the list about handling comments.
14:07:42 <kasei> ... get approval if necessary. For simple questions, clarifications, typo fixes, the appropriate person can just reply without group approval.
14:08:14 <kasei> Lee summarizes recent test threads.
14:09:23 <kasei> LeeF: MINUS test comment probably looking for clarification. I think the test is fine, but nobody swapped in on this right now.
14:09:51 <kasei> ... not the right people on the phone to deal with these comments. Tabled until next week.
14:10:32 <kasei> LeeF: any questions/comments about comments?
14:11:17 <kasei> LeeF: going to publish on Nov 6th after TPAC.
14:11:30 <kasei> ... i18n going to do a quick review of document(s).
14:11:50 <kasei> ... if they don't find any issues, we will publish PR except for protocol, entailment, gsp.
14:12:17 <kasei> ... if they want to do a full review (be end of november), we'll move all docs to CR with 3 week review period, moving to PR in December.
14:12:34 <kasei> ... sandro, axel, and myself will do heavy lifting, but would like some help from editors.
14:12:48 <kasei> ... including "changes since last call" section in the documents.
14:13:04 <sandro> <div id="changes-since-lc"> .... </div>      please
14:13:19 <kasei> ... sandro did his best effort identifying the changes, but would like editors to insert section with common anchor name.
14:13:38 <kasei> ... also would like editors to validate/correct changes.
14:13:52 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Transition_Request_Oct_2012#Status_Sections.2C_Changes_since_Last_Call
14:13:52 <kasei> sandro: I did my best to collect the changes. I had to hand wave a bit and didn't understand everything.
14:14:04 <kasei> ... please express changes better if I didn't get it quite right.
14:14:17 <kasei> LeeF: I'll follow up with the editors.
14:14:32 <kasei> kasei: I can do it for SD
14:14:50 <kasei> LeeF: Axel said he can do it for update.
14:14:53 <cbuilara> yes, I can
14:14:59 <kasei> cbuilara: can do it for federated query.
14:15:11 <kasei> LeeF: I will follow up with AndyS and bglimm.
14:15:40 <kasei> LeeF: the only change in protocol was the fault discussion media type issue, right?
14:15:55 <kasei> kasei: yes.
14:16:18 <kasei> LeeF: I'll also follow up with chimezie.
14:16:32 <kasei> sandro: the stylistic change is not to list the changes in the status of the document, but instead in the appendix.
14:16:44 <kasei> ... I want that so the status can be the same for every document.
14:17:00 <kasei> LeeF: any questions about publications?
14:17:34 <kasei> ... once we go to PR, talk to your AC rep and make sure they express support for the documents advancing. Will talk more about that later.
14:17:54 <kasei> topic: entailment regimes
14:18:23 <kasei> LeeF: we talked about the chances of moving all docs from CR to PR.
14:18:33 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0095.html
14:18:52 <kasei> Lee summarizes bglimm's entailment status summary.
14:19:41 <kasei> LeeF: chimezie suggested we'd only have one RIF implementation.
14:19:48 <kasei> sandro: I think pgearon has one, too?
14:19:56 <kasei> pgearon: I haven't been able to get near it recently.
14:20:18 <kasei> ... I'm the sole implementor, but has been removed from the codebase we work on. Doing completely unrelated stuff at the moment.
14:20:42 <kasei> sandro: then this would reamin in the spec, but as informative.
14:21:02 <kasei> LeeF: when we publish, we need to mark these sections as at risk and that they may not become normative.
14:21:51 <kasei> LeeF: once a 2nd or 3rd implementation comes along, if problems are discovered, it would be easier to change. But not much practical difference (same as problems being found in RDFS).
14:22:07 <kasei> sandro: can see people suggesting we should publish it as a note instead of inline in the document.
14:22:39 <kasei> LeeF: guess it will be fine. the market will see if people end up using it.
14:23:37 <kasei> LeeF: we need a WG decision to mark these sections at risk.
14:24:03 <kasei> q+
14:25:27 <kasei> kasei: do these entailment sections have tests in the test suite?
14:25:41 <sandro> looking at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/
14:25:52 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each
14:25:54 <kasei> LeeF: I believe chimezie said so in his email, but only going to CR at this point, so will need them in the future.
14:26:16 <kasei> +1
14:26:17 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
14:26:25 <MattPerry> +1
14:26:25 <LeeF> +1
14:26:37 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each
14:26:50 <kasei> LeeF: will ask bglimm to make these changes.
14:26:57 <LeeF> ACTION: Birte to mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc
14:26:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-702 - Mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-10-30].
14:27:07 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to notify editors about Changes Since LC section
14:27:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-703 - Notify editors about Changes Since LC section [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].
14:27:20 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to notify Birte about ACTION-702
14:27:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-704 - Notify Birte about ACTION-702 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].
14:27:36 <kasei> topic: GSP
14:27:57 <kasei> LeeF: was going to ask for the status, but chimezie isn't here.
14:28:18 <kasei> ... do we have one full implementation?
14:28:25 <kasei> sandro: I believe chimezie does.
14:28:51 <kasei> LeeF: Andy implemented most of GSP, but not POSTing triples to graph store.
14:29:07 <kasei> ... behavior of his system is different from what GSP wants.
14:29:28 <kasei> ... does anybody intend to implement GSP?
14:29:37 <pgearon> eventually
14:29:48 <kasei> sandro: ericP may have or is close to an implementation.
14:29:52 <pgearon> and the guys here have already done some portion of it
14:29:59 <kasei> LeeF: we intend to do it in Anzo, but would have to ask about the timeframe.
14:30:16 <kasei> sandro: my concern is whether Andy's concern speaks to the design of the GSP spec.
14:30:49 <kasei> LeeF: my opinion is that I'm comfortable with the design. It's a useful design. But I haven't thought through the design space.
14:31:08 <kasei> sandro: concerned that this is something that should have been raised before sending GSP to last call.
14:32:26 <kasei> sandro: not an option to leave as CR. if we don't get enough implementations, we'd turn it into a Note.
14:32:41 <kasei> LeeF: any other thoughts on this?
14:33:19 <kasei> topic: Protocol
14:34:29 <kasei> kasei: two full implementations
14:35:03 <kasei> ... now reflected on the implementation report.
14:35:14 <kasei> LeeF: will try to reach out to implementors outside the WG
14:35:32 <kasei> ... BigData, AllegroGraph, YarcData
14:35:43 <kasei> q+
14:36:00 <LeeF> ack kasei
14:38:33 <kasei> kasei: talked a bit with the Stardog guys. got entailment resutls, but they didn't want to publish other tests.
14:38:38 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans
14:38:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-705 - Reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].
14:41:38 <kasei> LeeF: when we go to PR, should reach out to implementors.
14:42:39 <LeeF> ACTION: Axel and Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon
14:42:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-706 - And Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-30].
14:42:49 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
14:42:57 <kasei> kasei: we should create a tarball of the tests so that implementors don't have to crawl the test suite web space.
14:43:00 <LeeF> I think we're done anyway
14:43:04 <LeeF> Anyone have any other business?
14:43:21 <kasei> (silence)
14:43:23 <LeeF> If no other business, then let's adjourn
14:43:25 <pgearon> nothing here
14:43:28 <LeeF> thanks for scribing, Greg
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