SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 23 October 2012

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0089.html
Present
Gregory Williams, Lee Feigenbaum, Paul Gearon, Matthew Perry, Sandro Hawke, Carlos Buil Aranda
Regrets
Axel Polleres, Chimezie Ogbuji, Andy Seaborne, Steve Harris, Birte Glimm
Chair
Lee Feigenbaum
Scribe
Gregory Williams
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09 link
  2. Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each link
Topics
<kasei> Present: kasei, Lee_Feigenbaum, pgearon, MattPerry, Sandro, cbuilara
13:56:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/23-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/23-sparql-irc

13:56:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

13:56:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

13:56:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

13:56:50 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:56:50 <trackbot> Date: 23 October 2012
13:56:50 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL

13:56:51 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

13:57:18 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
13:57:19 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0089.html
13:57:22 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0089.html

Lee Feigenbaum: LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0089.html

13:57:33 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Chime, Andy, Steve, Birte
13:59:10 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

13:59:13 <LeeF> zakim, code?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, code?

13:59:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), LeeF

13:59:17 <Zakim> +kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei

13:59:20 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum

13:59:56 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

14:00:11 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aaaa

14:00:12 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.603.897.aaaa

14:00:14 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: -Lee_Feigenbaum

14:00:46 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aabb

14:00:57 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum

14:01:01 <MattPerry> zakim, aabb is me

Matthew Perry: zakim, aabb is me

14:01:02 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry; got it

14:01:21 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone?

14:01:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, MattPerry, Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, MattPerry, Lee_Feigenbaum

14:01:39 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

14:01:40 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:01:44 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P11 is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P11 is me

14:01:44 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it

14:02:10 <kasei> Zakim, who is talking?

Gregory Williams: Zakim, who is talking?

14:02:20 <Zakim> kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cbuilara (84%)

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cbuilara (84%)

14:03:18 <LeeF> scribenick: kasei

(Scribe set to Gregory Williams)

14:03:18 <kasei> scribenick: kasei
14:03:36 <kasei> topic: admin

1. admin

14:04:09 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09

PROPOSED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09

14:04:46 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09

RESOLVED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-09

14:05:13 <sandro> regrets next week -- tpac

Sandro Hawke: regrets next week -- tpac

14:05:20 <kasei> LeeF: next meeting 30 october, with dst changes

Lee Feigenbaum: next meeting 30 october, with dst changes

14:05:30 <kasei> ... an hour earlier in europe (?)

... an hour earlier in europe (?)

14:05:46 <kasei> sandro: an hour later

Sandro Hawke: an hour later

14:06:13 <sandro> later

Sandro Hawke: later

14:06:15 <kasei> ... you're right. earlier.

... you're right. earlier.

14:06:26 <LeeF> Next meeting the 30th October -- ONE HOUR EARLIER OUTSIDE OF THE US

Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting the 30th October -- ONE HOUR EARLIER OUTSIDE OF THE US

14:06:42 <kasei> LeeF: who will be at TPAC?

Lee Feigenbaum: who will be at TPAC?

14:06:53 <LeeF> topic: Comments

2. Comments

14:07:17 <kasei> LeeF: Andy asked on the list about handling comments.

Lee Feigenbaum: Andy asked on the list about handling comments.

14:07:42 <kasei> ... get approval if necessary. For simple questions, clarifications, typo fixes, the appropriate person can just reply without group approval.

... get approval if necessary. For simple questions, clarifications, typo fixes, the appropriate person can just reply without group approval.

14:08:14 <kasei> Lee summarizes recent test threads.

Lee summarizes recent test threads.

14:09:23 <kasei> LeeF: MINUS test comment probably looking for clarification. I think the test is fine, but nobody swapped in on this right now.

Lee Feigenbaum: MINUS test comment probably looking for clarification. I think the test is fine, but nobody swapped in on this right now.

14:09:51 <kasei> ... not the right people on the phone to deal with these comments. Tabled until next week.

... not the right people on the phone to deal with these comments. Tabled until next week.

14:10:32 <kasei> LeeF: any questions/comments about comments?

Lee Feigenbaum: any questions/comments about comments?

14:11:17 <kasei> LeeF: going to publish on Nov 6th after TPAC.

Lee Feigenbaum: going to publish on Nov 6th after TPAC.

14:11:30 <kasei> ... i18n going to do a quick review of document(s).

... i18n going to do a quick review of document(s).

14:11:50 <kasei> ... if they don't find any issues, we will publish PR except for protocol, entailment, gsp.

... if they don't find any issues, we will publish PR except for protocol, entailment, gsp.

14:12:17 <kasei> ... if they want to do a full review (be end of november), we'll move all docs to CR with 3 week review period, moving to PR in December.

... if they want to do a full review (be end of november), we'll move all docs to CR with 3 week review period, moving to PR in December.

14:12:34 <kasei> ... sandro, axel, and myself will do heavy lifting, but would like some help from editors.

... sandro, axel, and myself will do heavy lifting, but would like some help from editors.

14:12:48 <kasei> ... including "changes since last call" section in the documents.

... including "changes since last call" section in the documents.

14:13:04 <sandro> <div id="changes-since-lc"> .... </div>      please

Sandro Hawke: <div id="changes-since-lc"> .... </div> please

14:13:19 <kasei> ... sandro did his best effort identifying the changes, but would like editors to insert section with common anchor name.

... sandro did his best effort identifying the changes, but would like editors to insert section with common anchor name.

14:13:38 <kasei> ... also would like editors to validate/correct changes.

... also would like editors to validate/correct changes.

14:13:52 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Transition_Request_Oct_2012#Status_Sections.2C_Changes_since_Last_Call

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Transition_Request_Oct_2012#Status_Sections.2C_Changes_since_Last_Call

14:13:52 <kasei> sandro: I did my best to collect the changes. I had to hand wave a bit and didn't understand everything.

Sandro Hawke: I did my best to collect the changes. I had to hand wave a bit and didn't understand everything.

14:14:04 <kasei> ... please express changes better if I didn't get it quite right.

... please express changes better if I didn't get it quite right.

14:14:17 <kasei> LeeF: I'll follow up with the editors.

Lee Feigenbaum: I'll follow up with the editors.

14:14:32 <kasei> kasei: I can do it for SD

Gregory Williams: I can do it for SD

14:14:50 <kasei> LeeF: Axel said he can do it for update.

Lee Feigenbaum: Axel said he can do it for update.

14:14:53 <cbuilara> yes, I can

Carlos Buil Aranda: yes, I can

14:14:59 <kasei> cbuilara: can do it for federated query.

Carlos Buil Aranda: can do it for federated query.

14:15:11 <kasei> LeeF: I will follow up with AndyS and bglimm.

Lee Feigenbaum: I will follow up with AndyS and bglimm.

14:15:40 <kasei> LeeF: the only change in protocol was the fault discussion media type issue, right?

Lee Feigenbaum: the only change in protocol was the fault discussion media type issue, right?

14:15:55 <kasei> kasei: yes.

Gregory Williams: yes.

14:16:18 <kasei> LeeF: I'll also follow up with chimezie.

Lee Feigenbaum: I'll also follow up with chimezie.

14:16:32 <kasei> sandro: the stylistic change is not to list the changes in the status of the document, but instead in the appendix.

Sandro Hawke: the stylistic change is not to list the changes in the status of the document, but instead in the appendix.

14:16:44 <kasei> ... I want that so the status can be the same for every document.

... I want that so the status can be the same for every document.

14:17:00 <kasei> LeeF: any questions about publications?

Lee Feigenbaum: any questions about publications?

14:17:34 <kasei> ... once we go to PR, talk to your AC rep and make sure they express support for the documents advancing. Will talk more about that later.

... once we go to PR, talk to your AC rep and make sure they express support for the documents advancing. Will talk more about that later.

14:17:54 <kasei> topic: entailment regimes

3. entailment regimes

14:18:23 <kasei> LeeF: we talked about the chances of moving all docs from CR to PR.

Lee Feigenbaum: we talked about the chances of moving all docs from CR to PR.

14:18:33 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0095.html

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0095.html

14:18:52 <kasei> Lee summarizes bglimm's entailment status summary.

Lee summarizes bglimm's entailment status summary.

14:19:41 <kasei> LeeF: chimezie suggested we'd only have one RIF implementation.

Lee Feigenbaum: chimezie suggested we'd only have one RIF implementation.

14:19:48 <kasei> sandro: I think pgearon has one, too?

Sandro Hawke: I think pgearon has one, too?

14:19:56 <kasei> pgearon: I haven't been able to get near it recently.

Paul Gearon: I haven't been able to get near it recently.

14:20:18 <kasei> ... I'm the sole implementor, but has been removed from the codebase we work on. Doing completely unrelated stuff at the moment.

... I'm the sole implementor, but has been removed from the codebase we work on. Doing completely unrelated stuff at the moment.

14:20:42 <kasei> sandro: then this would reamin in the spec, but as informative.

Sandro Hawke: then this would reamin in the spec, but as informative.

14:21:02 <kasei> LeeF: when we publish, we need to mark these sections as at risk and that they may not become normative.

Lee Feigenbaum: when we publish, we need to mark these sections as at risk and that they may not become normative.

14:21:51 <kasei> LeeF: once a 2nd or 3rd implementation comes along, if problems are discovered, it would be easier to change. But not much practical difference (same as problems being found in RDFS).

Lee Feigenbaum: once a 2nd or 3rd implementation comes along, if problems are discovered, it would be easier to change. But not much practical difference (same as problems being found in RDFS).

14:22:07 <kasei> sandro: can see people suggesting we should publish it as a note instead of inline in the document.

Sandro Hawke: can see people suggesting we should publish it as a note instead of inline in the document.

14:22:39 <kasei> LeeF: guess it will be fine. the market will see if people end up using it.

Lee Feigenbaum: guess it will be fine. the market will see if people end up using it.

14:23:37 <kasei> LeeF: we need a WG decision to mark these sections at risk.

Lee Feigenbaum: we need a WG decision to mark these sections at risk.

14:24:03 <kasei> q+

q+

14:25:27 <kasei> kasei: do these entailment sections have tests in the test suite?

Gregory Williams: do these entailment sections have tests in the test suite?

14:25:41 <sandro> looking at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/

Sandro Hawke: looking at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/

14:25:52 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each

PROPOSED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each

14:25:54 <kasei> LeeF: I believe chimezie said so in his email, but only going to CR at this point, so will need them in the future.

Lee Feigenbaum: I believe chimezie said so in his email, but only going to CR at this point, so will need them in the future.

14:26:16 <kasei> +1

+1

14:26:17 <sandro> +1 (W3C)

Sandro Hawke: +1 (W3C)

14:26:25 <MattPerry> +1

Matthew Perry: +1

14:26:25 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

14:26:37 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each

RESOLVED: Mark the OWL RDF-Based Semantics, the RIF semantics, OWL Direct Semantics "AT RISK" in the Entailment Regime document, with the possibility of falling back to be non-normative parts of the document should there fail to be multiple conformant implementations of each

14:26:50 <kasei> LeeF: will ask bglimm to make these changes.

Lee Feigenbaum: will ask bglimm to make these changes.

14:26:57 <LeeF> ACTION: Birte to mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc

ACTION: Birte to mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc

14:26:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-702 - Mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-10-30].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-702 - Mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-10-30].

14:27:07 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to notify editors about Changes Since LC section

ACTION: Lee to notify editors about Changes Since LC section

14:27:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-703 - Notify editors about Changes Since LC section [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-703 - Notify editors about Changes Since LC section [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].

14:27:20 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to notify Birte about ACTION-702

ACTION: Lee to notify Birte about ACTION-702

14:27:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-704 - Notify Birte about ACTION-702 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-704 - Notify Birte about ACTION-702 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].

14:27:36 <kasei> topic: GSP

4. GSP

14:27:57 <kasei> LeeF: was going to ask for the status, but chimezie isn't here.

Lee Feigenbaum: was going to ask for the status, but chimezie isn't here.

14:28:18 <kasei> ... do we have one full implementation?

... do we have one full implementation?

14:28:25 <kasei> sandro: I believe chimezie does.

Sandro Hawke: I believe chimezie does.

14:28:51 <kasei> LeeF: Andy implemented most of GSP, but not POSTing triples to graph store.

Lee Feigenbaum: Andy implemented most of GSP, but not POSTing triples to graph store.

14:29:07 <kasei> ... behavior of his system is different from what GSP wants.

... behavior of his system is different from what GSP wants.

14:29:28 <kasei> ... does anybody intend to implement GSP?

... does anybody intend to implement GSP?

14:29:37 <pgearon> eventually

Paul Gearon: eventually

14:29:48 <kasei> sandro: ericP may have or is close to an implementation.

Sandro Hawke: ericP may have or is close to an implementation.

14:29:52 <pgearon> and the guys here have already done some portion of it

Paul Gearon: and the guys here have already done some portion of it

14:29:59 <kasei> LeeF: we intend to do it in Anzo, but would have to ask about the timeframe.

Lee Feigenbaum: we intend to do it in Anzo, but would have to ask about the timeframe.

14:30:16 <kasei> sandro: my concern is whether Andy's concern speaks to the design of the GSP spec.

Sandro Hawke: my concern is whether Andy's concern speaks to the design of the GSP spec.

14:30:49 <kasei> LeeF: my opinion is that I'm comfortable with the design. It's a useful design. But I haven't thought through the design space.

Lee Feigenbaum: my opinion is that I'm comfortable with the design. It's a useful design. But I haven't thought through the design space.

14:31:08 <kasei> sandro: concerned that this is something that should have been raised before sending GSP to last call.

Sandro Hawke: concerned that this is something that should have been raised before sending GSP to last call.

14:32:26 <kasei> sandro: not an option to leave as CR. if we don't get enough implementations, we'd turn it into a Note.

Sandro Hawke: not an option to leave as CR. if we don't get enough implementations, we'd turn it into a Note.

14:32:41 <kasei> LeeF: any other thoughts on this?

Lee Feigenbaum: any other thoughts on this?

14:33:19 <kasei> topic: Protocol

5. Protocol

14:34:29 <kasei> kasei: two full implementations

Gregory Williams: two full implementations

14:35:03 <kasei> ... now reflected on the implementation report.

... now reflected on the implementation report.

14:35:14 <kasei> LeeF: will try to reach out to implementors outside the WG

Lee Feigenbaum: will try to reach out to implementors outside the WG

14:35:32 <kasei> ... BigData, AllegroGraph, YarcData

... BigData, AllegroGraph, YarcData

14:35:43 <kasei> q+

q+

14:36:00 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

14:38:33 <kasei> kasei: talked a bit with the Stardog guys. got entailment resutls, but they didn't want to publish other tests.

Gregory Williams: talked a bit with the Stardog guys. got entailment resutls, but they didn't want to publish other tests.

14:38:38 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans

ACTION: Lee to reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans

14:38:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-705 - Reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-705 - Reach out to non-WG SPARQL implementors to check on implementation plans [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-10-30].

14:41:38 <kasei> LeeF: when we go to PR, should reach out to implementors.

Lee Feigenbaum: when we go to PR, should reach out to implementors.

14:42:39 <LeeF> ACTION: Axel and Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon

ACTION: Axel and Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon

14:42:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-706 - And Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-30].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-706 - And Lee to make sure that unapproved tests get approved in a telecon soon [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-30].

14:42:49 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: -Lee_Feigenbaum

14:42:57 <kasei> kasei: we should create a tarball of the tests so that implementors don't have to crawl the test suite web space.

Gregory Williams: we should create a tarball of the tests so that implementors don't have to crawl the test suite web space.

14:43:00 <LeeF> I think we're done anyway

Lee Feigenbaum: I think we're done anyway

14:43:04 <LeeF> Anyone have any other business?

Lee Feigenbaum: Anyone have any other business?

14:43:21 <kasei> (silence)

(silence)

14:43:23 <LeeF> If no other business, then let's adjourn

Lee Feigenbaum: If no other business, then let's adjourn

14:43:25 <pgearon> nothing here

Paul Gearon: nothing here

14:43:28 <LeeF> thanks for scribing, Greg

Lee Feigenbaum: thanks for scribing, Greg



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This revision (#1) generated 2012-10-23 14:47:56 UTC by 'gwilliam', comments: 'Cleaned up.'