SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 30 November 2010

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0316.html
Seen
Alexandre Passant, Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Carlos Buil Aranda, Chimezie Ogbuji, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gregory Williams, Lee Feigenbaum, Matthew Perry, Nicholas Humfrey, Nico Michaelis, Olivier Corby, Paul Gearon, Sandro Hawke, Steve Harris
Regrets
Steve Harris
Chair
Lee Feigenbaum
Scribe
Carlos Buil Aranda
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-11-23 link
  2. SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even, the op:*, and fn:compare and including RAND() and RAND(X), no objections or abstentions link
  3. SPARQL 1.1 includes keywords for all functionsin function library, as per suggestions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html and using YEAR, MONTH, DAY, HOURS, MINUTES, SECONDS, TIMEZONE for the date time accessor functions and RAND link
  4. All SPARQL 1.0 and SPARQL 1.1 functions have URIs in a SPARQL-owned namespace to be determined link
Topics
14:54:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/30-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/30-sparql-irc

14:54:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:54:54 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

14:54:54 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

14:54:55 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:54:55 <trackbot> Date: 30 November 2010
14:54:56 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL

14:54:56 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

14:55:08 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

14:55:15 <Zakim> +??P6

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6

14:55:25 <cbuilara> Zakim, +??p6 is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: Zakim, +??p6 is me

14:55:26 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named '+??p6'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named '+??p6'

14:55:38 <cbuilara> Zakim, ??P6

Carlos Buil Aranda: Zakim, ??P6

14:55:38 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P6', cbuilara

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??P6', cbuilara

14:55:48 <cbuilara> Zakim, ??P6 is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: Zakim, ??P6 is me

14:55:48 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it

14:55:54 <Zakim> + +1.617.553.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.553.aaaa

14:56:02 <LeeF> zakim, aaaa is me

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, aaaa is me

14:56:02 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF; got it

14:56:28 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

14:56:35 <AndyS> zakim, ??P9 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P9 is me

14:56:35 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:57:12 <Zakim> +kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei

14:57:38 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

14:58:01 <NickH> zakim, ??P11 is me

Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, ??P11 is me

14:58:01 <Zakim> +NickH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it

14:58:49 <Zakim> + +49.911.973.4.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.911.973.4.aabb

14:59:04 <NicoM> Zakim, +49 is me

Nico Michaelis: Zakim, +49 is me

14:59:04 <Zakim> +NicoM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +NicoM; got it

14:59:09 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:59:24 <LeeF> Regrets: SteveH
15:00:02 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0316.html
15:00:07 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby

15:00:23 <kasei> Zakim, who is talking?

Gregory Williams: Zakim, who is talking?

15:00:34 <Zakim> kasei, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (17%)

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (17%)

15:00:56 <kasei> very strage sounding jack hammers :)

Gregory Williams: very strage sounding jack hammers :)

15:01:04 <LeeF> ok, guess not then :)

Lee Feigenbaum: ok, guess not then :)

15:01:11 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone?

15:01:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, LeeF, AndyS, kasei, NickH, NicoM, OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see cbuilara, LeeF, AndyS, kasei, NickH, NicoM, OlivierCorby

15:01:17 <Zakim> +MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry

15:01:21 <LeeF> Scribenick: cbuilara

(Scribe set to Carlos Buil Aranda)

15:01:23 <LeeF> Scribe: Carlos
15:02:11 <cbuilara> I can't hear anything

I can't hear anything

15:03:11 <LeeF> topic: Admin

1. Admin

15:03:24 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-11-23

PROPOSED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-11-23

15:03:44 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres

15:03:46 <cbuilara> LeeF: shorcuts, ask for feedback

Lee Feigenbaum: shorcuts, ask for feedback

15:04:04 <cbuilara> Leef: ask for implementation experience about update shorcuts

Lee Feigenbaum: ask for implementation experience about update shorcuts

15:04:22 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-11-23

RESOLVED: Approve minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-11-23

15:04:50 <LeeF> Next meeting: Tuesday December 7, 2010 - usual time and place

Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting: Tuesday December 7, 2010 - usual time and place

15:05:02 <cbuilara> LeeF: next meeting 7th December

Lee Feigenbaum: next meeting 7th December

15:05:16 <LeeF> regrets next week: cbuilara

Lee Feigenbaum: regrets next week: cbuilara

15:05:26 <OlivierCorby> regrets also

Olivier Corby: regrets also

15:05:43 <AlexPassant> regrets for me next week as well

Alexandre Passant: regrets for me next week as well

15:05:55 <cbuilara> LeeF: 28th week of

Lee Feigenbaum: 28th week of

15:06:21 <cbuilara> LeeF: tomorrow working session on protocol document

Lee Feigenbaum: tomorrow working session on protocol document

15:06:27 <Zakim> + +44.186.528.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.186.528.aacc

15:06:27 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

15:06:42 <Zakim> + +1.540.841.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.841.aadd

15:06:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:06:48 <cbuilara> LeeF: goal: have a protocol proposal for the group

Lee Feigenbaum: goal: have a protocol proposal for the group

15:06:52 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

15:06:55 <bglimm> Zakim, +44.186.528.aacc is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, +44.186.528.aacc is me

15:06:55 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

15:06:55 <AlexPassant> Zakim: IPcaller is me
15:07:01 <pgearon_> Zakim: aadd is me
15:07:05 <Zakim> +??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31

15:07:06 <sandro> (sorry I'm late)

Sandro Hawke: (sorry I'm late)

15:07:11 <AlexPassant> Zakim: +IPcaller is me
15:07:14 <cbuilara> LeeF: look at the entailment decision for next week

Lee Feigenbaum: look at the entailment decision for next week

15:07:17 <AndyS> zakim, ??P31 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P31 is me

15:07:17 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:07:19 <AxelPolleres> next week... entailment decisions

Axel Polleres: next week... entailment decisions

15:07:26 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone?

15:07:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, LeeF, kasei, NickH, NicoM, OlivierCorby, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, bglimm, +1.540.841.aadd, [IPcaller], Sandro, AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see cbuilara, LeeF, kasei, NickH, NicoM, OlivierCorby, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, bglimm, +1.540.841.aadd, [IPcaller], Sandro, AndyS

15:07:36 <LeeF> zakim, aadd is pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, aadd is pgearon

15:07:36 <Zakim> +pgearon; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon; got it

15:07:38 <AlexPassant> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Alexandre Passant: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:07:38 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it

15:08:30 <LeeF> topic: which functions?

2. which functions?

15:08:41 <Zakim> -AlexPassant

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant

15:09:12 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error and the DateTime functions

PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error and the DateTime functions

15:09:45 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error and the DateTime functions and including RAND() and RAND(X)

PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error and the DateTime functions and including RAND() and RAND(X)

15:09:47 <Zakim> +AlexPassant

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant

15:10:38 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:10:42 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:10:55 <AndyS> CONCAT has turned out *potentially* different.

Andy Seaborne: CONCAT has turned out *potentially* different.

15:11:18 <pgearon_> q+

Paul Gearon: q+

15:11:25 <cbuilara> kasei: date time functions are useful, but not necessarily with keywords

Gregory Williams: date time functions are useful, but not necessarily with keywords

15:11:31 <LeeF> ack pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon

15:11:52 <cbuilara> pgearon: everybody is going to support date/time, I want see them in

Paul Gearon: everybody is going to support date/time, I want see them in

15:12:43 <cbuilara> AndyS: we need to provide keywords, testing to see where the boundary is here

Andy Seaborne: we need to provide keywords, testing to see where the boundary is here

15:13:19 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error and including RAND() and RAND(X)

PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error and including RAND() and RAND(X)

15:13:50 <cbuilara> LeeF: is anybody who feels that should not include these date time functions?

Lee Feigenbaum: is anybody who feels that should not include these date time functions?

15:13:55 <LeeF> (silence)

Lee Feigenbaum: (silence)

15:14:02 <NickH> :-D

Nicholas Humfrey: :-D

15:14:19 <LeeF>  fn:round-half-to-even

Lee Feigenbaum: fn:round-half-to-even

15:14:30 <cbuilara> LeeF: dodgy ones are fn:round-half-to-even

Lee Feigenbaum: dodgy ones are fn:round-half-to-even

15:14:34 <LeeF> s/LeeF/AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: s/LeeF/AndyS

15:15:42 <cbuilara> AndyS: dodgyness: in applications type float cannot be intuitive

Andy Seaborne: dodgyness: in applications type float cannot be intuitive

15:15:49 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functiofn:round-half-to-evenns/#func-round-half-to-even

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functiofn:round-half-to-evenns/#func-round-half-to-even

15:16:02 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-round-half-to-even

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-round-half-to-even

15:16:08 <cbuilara> LeeF: anybody has experinece with that round-half-to-even?

Lee Feigenbaum: anybody has experinece with that round-half-to-even?

15:16:21 <cbuilara> s/experinece/experience

s/experinece/experience

15:16:34 <kasei> was the proposal to implement both the one and two-arg forms?

Gregory Williams: was the proposal to implement both the one and two-arg forms?

15:17:28 <AxelPolleres> anyone really wanting round-half-to-even?

Axel Polleres: anyone really wanting round-half-to-even?

15:17:35 <cbuilara> LeeF: the proposal would be to include all forms, all related functions of fn form

Lee Feigenbaum: the proposal would be to include all forms, all related functions of fn form

15:18:11 <cbuilara> AndyS: omitt it

Andy Seaborne: omitt it

15:18:13 <AxelPolleres> +1 omit

Axel Polleres: +1 omit

15:18:16 <pgearon_> +1 omit

Paul Gearon: +1 omit

15:18:23 <OlivierCorby> +1 omit

Olivier Corby: +1 omit

15:18:26 <cbuilara> LeeF: ample support for omit

Lee Feigenbaum: ample support for omit

15:18:31 <NickH> +1 omit

Nicholas Humfrey: +1 omit

15:18:36 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even and including RAND() and RAND(X)

PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even and including RAND() and RAND(X)

15:19:36 <ericP> ±1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ±1

15:19:48 <cbuilara> AndyS: the operators are already there, the question is whether you can call it

Andy Seaborne: the operators are already there, the question is whether you can call it

15:20:02 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml#OperatorMapping

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml#OperatorMapping

15:20:49 <cbuilara> ANdyS: the ones missing are dates ones

Andy Seaborne: the ones missing are dates ones

15:21:01 <cbuilara> s/ANdyS/AndyS

s/ANdyS/AndyS

15:21:10 <AxelPolleres> q+

Axel Polleres: q+

15:21:15 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres

15:21:41 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji

Zakim IRC Bot: +Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:21:45 <cbuilara> LeeF: leave it as it is, comparison support, add date time functions

Lee Feigenbaum: leave it as it is, comparison support, add date time functions

15:21:50 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even, the op:* and including RAND() and RAND(X)

PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even, the op:* and including RAND() and RAND(X)

15:22:29 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-compare

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-compare

15:22:50 <cbuilara> LeeF: I'd like to include it, opinions?

Lee Feigenbaum: I'd like to include it, opinions?

15:22:53 <AxelPolleres> kind of a coinflip decision...

Axel Polleres: kind of a coinflip decision...

15:23:00 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me

15:23:00 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

15:23:16 <AxelPolleres> the version without collation can be emulated with IF( ... < ...

Axel Polleres: the version without collation can be emulated with IF( ... < ...

15:23:36 <cbuilara> LeeF: any implementors have an opinion

Lee Feigenbaum: any implementors have an opinion

15:23:57 <pgearon_> +q

Paul Gearon: +q

15:24:12 <LeeF> ack pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon

15:24:40 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even, the op:*, and fn:compare and including RAND() and RAND(X)

PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even, the op:*, and fn:compare and including RAND() and RAND(X)

15:24:43 <cbuilara> pgearon: I'd put it in, happy not to require to implementors

Paul Gearon: I'd put it in, happy not to require to implementors

15:24:50 <pgearon_> +q

Paul Gearon: +q

15:24:56 <LeeF> ack pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon

15:25:33 <chimezie> +1

Chimezie Ogbuji: +1

15:25:34 <AlexPassant> might be nice

Alexandre Passant: might be nice

15:25:48 <LeeF> pgearon: what about a SHA1 function?

Paul Gearon: what about a SHA1 function? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:25:53 <cbuilara> pgearon: wondering if SHA1 one should be part of the function library?

Paul Gearon: wondering if SHA1 one should be part of the function library?

15:25:55 <AndyS> http://commons.apache.org/codec/apidocs/org/apache/commons/codec/digest/DigestUtils.html

Andy Seaborne: http://commons.apache.org/codec/apidocs/org/apache/commons/codec/digest/DigestUtils.html

15:25:55 <AlexPassant> md5 may be useful as well

Alexandre Passant: md5 may be useful as well

15:26:05 <chimezie> 128 bit length?

Chimezie Ogbuji: 128 bit length?

15:26:14 <AlexPassant> especially for UPDATE (e.g. inserting passwords in a rdf store)

Alexandre Passant: especially for UPDATE (e.g. inserting passwords in a rdf store)

15:26:17 <cbuilara> LeeF: useful thing

Lee Feigenbaum: useful thing

15:26:25 <AlexPassant> q+

Alexandre Passant: q+

15:26:29 <cbuilara> LeeF: but not sure if we require it

Lee Feigenbaum: but not sure if we require it

15:26:32 <kasei> LeeF, no.

Gregory Williams: LeeF, no.

15:26:52 <LeeF> kasei: thinks it's useful, but shouldn't be required.

Gregory Williams: thinks it's useful, but shouldn't be required. [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:26:55 <AlexPassant> q-

Alexandre Passant: q-

15:27:14 <LeeF> AndyS: what would it return?

Andy Seaborne: what would it return? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:27:46 <kasei> I'd imagine you'd get out of it the ability to query for foaf:mbox_sha1sum based on an foaf:mbox value.

Gregory Williams: I'd imagine you'd get out of it the ability to query for foaf:mbox_sha1sum based on an foaf:mbox value.

15:28:24 <cbuilara> LeeF: would anybody be unhappy including SHA1?

Lee Feigenbaum: would anybody be unhappy including SHA1?

15:28:32 <AlexPassant> sha1 only or also md5 ?

Alexandre Passant: sha1 only or also md5 ?

15:29:09 <cbuilara> pgearon: send an email to the list with the proposal about SHA1 and md5

Paul Gearon: send an email to the list with the proposal about SHA1 and md5

15:29:26 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even, the op:*, and fn:compare and including RAND() and RAND(X)

PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even, the op:*, and fn:compare and including RAND() and RAND(X)

15:29:43 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby

15:29:49 <cbuilara> LeeF: any addition to this proposal? if there is ample support we will ammend the list

Lee Feigenbaum: any addition to this proposal? if there is ample support we will ammend the list

15:30:08 <AxelPolleres> seconded

Axel Polleres: seconded

15:30:08 <AndyS> seconded

Andy Seaborne: seconded

15:30:13 <cbuilara> LeeF: changes to this proposal?

Lee Feigenbaum: changes to this proposal?

15:30:23 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby

15:30:26 <cbuilara> LeeF: any abstention or reject?

Lee Feigenbaum: any abstention or reject?

15:30:28 <LeeF> RESOLVED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even, the op:*, and fn:compare and including RAND() and RAND(X), no objections or abstentions

RESOLVED: SPARQL 1.1 Function Library includes all of the functions listed at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0188.html except for fn:error, fn:round-half-to-even, the op:*, and fn:compare and including RAND() and RAND(X), no objections or abstentions

15:31:00 <LeeF> topic: keywords and URIs

3. keywords and URIs

15:31:05 <cbuilara> LeeF: next keywords and URIs

Lee Feigenbaum: next keywords and URIs

15:32:07 <cbuilara> LeeF: do all of these functions get their keywords in the SPARQL syntaxt and if not can we get keywords? good to have keywords for all functions? opinions?

Lee Feigenbaum: do all of these functions get their keywords in the SPARQL syntaxt and if not can we get keywords? good to have keywords for all functions? opinions?

15:32:10 <AxelPolleres> +1 for keyqords

Axel Polleres: +1 for keyqords

15:32:13 <AxelPolleres> q+

Axel Polleres: q+

15:32:17 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres

15:32:38 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

15:32:38 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

15:33:18 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we expect that implementations support for functions, strongly support for funcitons to be accessible by keywords

Axel Polleres: we expect that implementations support for functions, strongly support for funcitons to be accessible by keywords

15:33:43 <kasei> AxelPolleres, how is this different from the xsd constructor functions we already require but don't have keywords?

Gregory Williams: AxelPolleres, how is this different from the xsd constructor functions we already require but don't have keywords?

15:33:52 <LeeF> q?

Lee Feigenbaum: q?

15:33:53 <AndyS> Some possible names: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html

Andy Seaborne: Some possible names: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html

15:33:53 <cbuilara> LeeF: SPARQL users do not realize of all the functions they have available

Lee Feigenbaum: SPARQL users do not realize of all the functions they have available

15:35:03 <cbuilara> LeeF: Axel is in favor, Kasei has objections

Lee Feigenbaum: Axel is in favor, Kasei has objections

15:35:06 <AndyS> Yes - I'd put in names as per emaikl (not DateTime ones 'cos I can't think of names)

Andy Seaborne: Yes - I'd put in names as per emaikl (not DateTime ones 'cos I can't think of names)

15:35:13 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html

15:35:22 <pgearon_> +q

Paul Gearon: +q

15:35:28 <LeeF> ack pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon

15:35:43 <cbuilara> pgearon: rather not include a particular prefix

Paul Gearon: rather not include a particular prefix

15:35:57 <cbuilara> pgearon: just say date, day

Paul Gearon: just say date, day

15:36:16 <cbuilara> pgearon: it should be common for all queries

Paul Gearon: it should be common for all queries

15:36:31 <cbuilara> LeeF: not in favor

Lee Feigenbaum: not in favor

15:36:36 <kasei> pgearon, like virtuoso's bif: prefix?

Gregory Williams: pgearon, like virtuoso's bif: prefix?

15:36:51 <AndyS> +1 to LeeF - principle is URIs - else keywords

Andy Seaborne: +1 to LeeF - principle is URIs - else keywords

15:37:31 <AxelPolleres> implicit prefixes need some more things to define... although I am not  strongly opposing that, that would cost more time to agree than we have, I am afraid... keywords are the shorter route, it seems

Axel Polleres: implicit prefixes need some more things to define... although I am not strongly opposing that, that would cost more time to agree than we have, I am afraid... keywords are the shorter route, it seems

15:37:58 <cbuilara> LeeF: any other proposal?

Lee Feigenbaum: any other proposal?

15:38:11 <kasei> I'd support keywords for everything for simplicity as long as the keywords remain \w+ (with no dashes, underscores) including dateTime functions.

Gregory Williams: I'd support keywords for everything for simplicity as long as the keywords remain \w+ (with no dashes, underscores) including dateTime functions.

15:38:14 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, unmute me

15:38:14 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted

15:38:21 <AxelPolleres> the keywords would just be the function names with  fn: stripped off.

Axel Polleres: the keywords would just be the function names with fn: stripped off.

15:38:36 <cbuilara> chimezie: any criteria on whihc functions have keywords?

Chimezie Ogbuji: any criteria on whihc functions have keywords?

15:38:41 <AndyS> Axel - see email - not quite.

Andy Seaborne: Axel - see email - not quite.

15:38:55 <cbuilara> LeeF: multiword ones

Lee Feigenbaum: multiword ones

15:39:25 <AxelPolleres> CamelCase?

Axel Polleres: CamelCase?

15:39:41 <kasei> possible dateTime functions without multiwords: YEAR(), MONTH(), DAY(), HOURS(), MINUTES(), SECONDS(), TIMEZONE()

Gregory Williams: possible dateTime functions without multiwords: YEAR(), MONTH(), DAY(), HOURS(), MINUTES(), SECONDS(), TIMEZONE()

15:40:08 <AxelPolleres> +1 to kasei's, sounds fine to me

Axel Polleres: +1 to kasei's, sounds fine to me

15:40:13 <LeeF> straw poll: (1) keywords as per AndyS's mail (excludes date time functions)  (2) keywords for all (some keywords not yet specified anywhere)

Lee Feigenbaum: straw poll: (1) keywords as per AndyS's mail (excludes date time functions) (2) keywords for all (some keywords not yet specified anywhere)

15:40:26 <chimezie> 1

Chimezie Ogbuji: 1

15:40:28 <cbuilara> LeeF: strawpoll, two choices 1- keywords as per AndyS 2- keywords for all some not specified anywhere

Lee Feigenbaum: strawpoll, two choices 1- keywords as per AndyS 2- keywords for all some not specified anywhere

15:40:31 <AxelPolleres> 2 ... kasei's proposal on IRC seems just fine

Axel Polleres: 2 ... kasei's proposal on IRC seems just fine

15:40:34 <sandro> 0 can't decide

Sandro Hawke: 0 can't decide

15:40:42 <LeeF> 0

Lee Feigenbaum: 0

15:40:44 <cbuilara> 0

0

15:40:44 <AndyS> 0 - don't care

Andy Seaborne: 0 - don't care

15:40:47 <MattPerry> 0

Matthew Perry: 0

15:40:53 <AndyS> 2

Andy Seaborne: 2

15:41:09 <kasei> 0 - neutral after this discussion

Gregory Williams: 0 - neutral after this discussion

15:41:11 <pgearon_> 2

Paul Gearon: 2

15:41:15 <bglimm> 0

Birte Glimm: 0

15:41:17 <OlivierCorby> 1

Olivier Corby: 1

15:41:20 <AlexPassant> 0

Alexandre Passant: 0

15:41:53 <cbuilara> OlivierCorby: maybe we align with xquery

Olivier Corby: maybe we align with xquery

15:42:15 <AxelPolleres> In xquery, I can use the fn: functions without prefix, BTW.

Axel Polleres: In xquery, I can use the fn: functions without prefix, BTW.

15:42:25 <cbuilara> OlivierCorby: problem: introducing more and more keyword, maybe to align to xquery

Olivier Corby: problem: introducing more and more keyword, maybe to align to xquery

15:43:36 <cbuilara> LeeF: slight preference to include keywords for all of this

Lee Feigenbaum: slight preference to include keywords for all of this

15:43:43 <AndyS> ?? Xquery uses base URI resolution to make URIs of name without ":"

Andy Seaborne: ?? Xquery uses base URI resolution to make URIs of name without ":"

15:44:21 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 includes keywords for all functionsin function library, as per suggestions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html and using YEAR, MONTH, DAY, HOURS, MINUTES, SECONDS, TIMEZONE for the date time accessor functions

PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 includes keywords for all functionsin function library, as per suggestions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html and using YEAR, MONTH, DAY, HOURS, MINUTES, SECONDS, TIMEZONE for the date time accessor functions

15:44:45 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 includes keywords for all functionsin function library, as per suggestions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html and using YEAR, MONTH, DAY, HOURS, MINUTES, SECONDS, TIMEZONE for the date time accessor functions and RAND

PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 includes keywords for all functionsin function library, as per suggestions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html and using YEAR, MONTH, DAY, HOURS, MINUTES, SECONDS, TIMEZONE for the date time accessor functions and RAND

15:44:56 <pgearon_> seconded

Paul Gearon: seconded

15:45:24 <LeeF> RESOLVED: SPARQL 1.1 includes keywords for all functionsin function library, as per suggestions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html and using YEAR, MONTH, DAY, HOURS, MINUTES, SECONDS, TIMEZONE for the date time accessor functions and RAND

RESOLVED: SPARQL 1.1 includes keywords for all functionsin function library, as per suggestions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html and using YEAR, MONTH, DAY, HOURS, MINUTES, SECONDS, TIMEZONE for the date time accessor functions and RAND

15:45:25 <cbuilara> LeeF: anybody objects or abstain?

Lee Feigenbaum: anybody objects or abstain?

15:45:33 <NickH> yay

Nicholas Humfrey: yay

15:46:03 <kasei> no, but we've recently got this: http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql#

Gregory Williams: no, but we've recently got this: http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql#

15:46:04 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html

15:46:06 <cbuilara> LeeF: what URIs to use? SPARQL 1.0 has well defined URIs?

Lee Feigenbaum: what URIs to use? SPARQL 1.0 has well defined URIs?

15:46:12 <cbuilara> AndyS: no

Andy Seaborne: no

15:46:19 <AxelPolleres> Andy, does Xquery say something about default for the BASE URI to fn:  (... at least more than one XQuery processr I played around with did that)?

Axel Polleres: Andy, does Xquery say something about default for the BASE URI to fn: (... at least more than one XQuery processr I played around with did that)?

15:46:56 <cbuilara> AndyS: all SPARQL 1.0 in SPARQL 1.1 with their own namespace

Andy Seaborne: all SPARQL 1.0 in SPARQL 1.1 with their own namespace

15:47:34 <AndyS> Axel - would need to check the details for XQ formal spec.

Andy Seaborne: Axel - would need to check the details for XQ formal spec.

15:47:36 <LeeF> zakim, who's talking?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's talking?

15:47:46 <Zakim> LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (80%), Sandro (84%)

Zakim IRC Bot: LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (80%), Sandro (84%)

15:47:47 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me

15:47:47 <NickH> Lots of echo!

Nicholas Humfrey: Lots of echo!

15:47:49 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

15:47:58 <LeeF> zakim, mute sandro please

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, mute sandro please

15:47:58 <Zakim> Sandro should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Sandro should now be muted

15:48:26 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql#

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql#

15:48:55 <cbuilara> LeeF: use http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql# namespace for SPARQL 1.0 functions, any objection?

Lee Feigenbaum: use http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql# namespace for SPARQL 1.0 functions, any objection?

15:49:08 <AndyS> q+ to ask about mapping to F&O (can wait)

Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask about mapping to F&O (can wait)

15:49:31 <LeeF> sandro: is that the same as service description?

Sandro Hawke: is that the same as service description? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:49:38 <LeeF> kasei: no, not the same - similar

Gregory Williams: no, not the same - similar [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:49:38 <AxelPolleres> andy, hmmm, in http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery-semantics/ I didn't find anything indicating that...

Axel Polleres: andy, hmmm, in http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery-semantics/ I didn't find anything indicating that...

15:49:43 <LeeF> sandro: should it be sparql-functions#?

Sandro Hawke: should it be sparql-functions#? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:49:58 <AndyS> Axel - try the grammar/syntax.

Andy Seaborne: Axel - try the grammar/syntax.

15:50:24 <kasei> service description namespace is: http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service-description

Gregory Williams: service description namespace is: http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service-description

15:50:33 <LeeF> sandro: or sparql-function# ?

Sandro Hawke: or sparql-function# ? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:50:46 <LeeF> AndyS: need prefixes also for entailment regimes, ... what else?

Andy Seaborne: need prefixes also for entailment regimes, ... what else? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:51:01 <cbuilara> LeeF: unclear when naming aggregates

Lee Feigenbaum: unclear when naming aggregates

15:51:03 <bglimm> profiles in ent. regimes (OWL EL, RL, QL)

Birte Glimm: profiles in ent. regimes (OWL EL, RL, QL)

15:51:16 <bglimm> that's used in the service descriptions

Birte Glimm: that's used in the service descriptions

15:51:45 <cbuilara> AndyS: put all service descriptions in one wikipage

Andy Seaborne: put all service descriptions in one wikipage

15:51:51 <cbuilara> AndyS: all prefixes

Andy Seaborne: all prefixes

15:51:51 <LeeF> AndyS: Can someone pull namespace issues together in one place?

Andy Seaborne: Can someone pull namespace issues together in one place? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:51:59 <AxelPolleres> we have yet another namespace for ent-regiems, BTW, right?

Axel Polleres: we have yet another namespace for ent-regiems, BTW, right?

15:52:13 <cbuilara> kasei: I can try to sumarize

Gregory Williams: I can try to sumarize

15:52:37 <AxelPolleres> items that need URIs and which namespace we currently use.

Axel Polleres: items that need URIs and which namespace we currently use.

15:52:51 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to summarize what items we need URIs for and what URI prefixes we're currently using

ACTION: Greg to summarize what items we need URIs for and what URI prefixes we're currently using

15:52:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-338 - Summarize what items we need URIs for and what URI prefixes we're currently using [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-12-07].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-338 - Summarize what items we need URIs for and what URI prefixes we're currently using [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-12-07].

15:53:25 <LeeF> PROPOSED: All SPARQL 1.0 and SPARQL 1.1 functions have URIs in a SPARQL-owned namespace to be determined

PROPOSED: All SPARQL 1.0 and SPARQL 1.1 functions have URIs in a SPARQL-owned namespace to be determined

15:54:03 <AndyS> q-

Andy Seaborne: q-

15:54:17 <kasei> +1 LeeF

Gregory Williams: +1 LeeF

15:54:32 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:54:33 <cbuilara> LeeF: any objection

Lee Feigenbaum: any objection

15:54:37 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:54:49 <AndyS> LeeF: Simplist to have all functions in one space

Lee Feigenbaum: Simplist to have all functions in one space [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

15:55:26 <AxelPolleres> +1

Axel Polleres: +1

15:55:26 <AndyS>  FYI: Can call aggs by URI currently

Andy Seaborne: FYI: Can call aggs by URI currently

15:55:30 <LeeF> RESOLVED: All SPARQL 1.0 and SPARQL 1.1 functions have URIs in a SPARQL-owned namespace to be determined

RESOLVED: All SPARQL 1.0 and SPARQL 1.1 functions have URIs in a SPARQL-owned namespace to be determined

15:56:22 <cbuilara> LeeF: remaining issues, simple literal, access string stuff

Lee Feigenbaum: remaining issues, simple literal, access string stuff

15:56:42 <cbuilara> LeeF: remaining: string concatenation

Lee Feigenbaum: remaining: string concatenation

15:56:50 <cbuilara> LeeF: latests proposals from AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: latests proposals from AndyS

15:56:54 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html -- has a proposal for how to handle simple literals, xsd:strings, and language tags in concat

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0283.html -- has a proposal for how to handle simple literals, xsd:strings, and language tags in concat

15:57:00 <AndyS> If we have CONCAT, I'm happy to drop overloading "+"

Andy Seaborne: If we have CONCAT, I'm happy to drop overloading "+"

15:57:13 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0302.html - proposes not to require overloading + for concatenation

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0302.html - proposes not to require overloading + for concatenation

15:57:24 <AxelPolleres> "CONCAT("a"^^xsd:string, "b") -> "ab"^^xsd:string (?? choice point)" ...

Axel Polleres: "CONCAT("a"^^xsd:string, "b") -> "ab"^^xsd:string (?? choice point)" ...

15:57:45 <AxelPolleres> the coin flip is basically whetherr to default to return type plain lit, or string, isn't it?

Axel Polleres: the coin flip is basically whetherr to default to return type plain lit, or string, isn't it?

15:57:50 <cbuilara> LeeF: people to catch up in the mail threads, comments please

Lee Feigenbaum: people to catch up in the mail threads, comments please

15:58:48 <chimezie> bye

Chimezie Ogbuji: bye

15:58:50 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji

Zakim IRC Bot: -Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:58:51 <Zakim> -LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF

15:58:51 <Zakim> -MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry

15:58:51 <bglimm> bye

Birte Glimm: bye

15:58:52 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres

15:58:53 <Zakim> -AlexPassant

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant

15:58:56 <Zakim> -bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm

15:58:57 <MattPerry> \quit

Matthew Perry: \quit

15:58:57 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:58:57 <Zakim> -pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon

15:58:58 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby

15:58:59 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

15:59:01 <Zakim> -NicoM

Zakim IRC Bot: -NicoM

15:59:05 <Zakim> -cbuilara

Zakim IRC Bot: -cbuilara

15:59:07 <Zakim> -NickH

Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH

15:59:09 <Zakim> -kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei

15:59:11 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

15:59:13 <Zakim> Attendees were cbuilara, +1.617.553.aaaa, LeeF, AndyS, kasei, NickH, +49.911.973.4.aabb, NicoM, OlivierCorby, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, +1.540.841.aadd, Sandro, bglimm, pgearon,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were cbuilara, +1.617.553.aaaa, LeeF, AndyS, kasei, NickH, +49.911.973.4.aabb, NicoM, OlivierCorby, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, +1.540.841.aadd, Sandro, bglimm, pgearon,

15:59:16 <Zakim> ... AlexPassant, Chimezie_Ogbuji

Zakim IRC Bot: ... AlexPassant, Chimezie_Ogbuji



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This revision (#1) generated 2010-11-30 16:27:59 UTC by 'lfeigenb', comments: 'thanks to Carlos for scribing'