SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 08 June 2010

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-06-08
Seen
Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Gregory Williams, Ivan Herman, Lee Feigenbaum, Matthew Perry, Nicholas Humfrey, Olivier Corby, Paul Gearon, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris
Chair
Axel Polleres
Scribe
Steve Harris
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-06-01 link
Topics
13:58:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/08-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/08-sparql-irc

13:58:52 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting

Axel Polleres: trackbot, start meeting

13:58:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

13:58:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

13:58:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

13:58:58 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:58:58 <trackbot> Date: 08 June 2010
14:00:03 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

14:00:10 <Zakim> +kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei

14:00:49 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

14:00:56 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres

14:01:19 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:01:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres

14:01:20 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:01:26 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me

14:01:26 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:01:35 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aaaa

14:01:47 <MattPerry> zakim, aaaa is me

Matthew Perry: zakim, aaaa is me

14:01:47 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry; got it

14:01:48 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:01:48 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:01:49 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

14:01:54 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:01:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan

14:02:10 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aabb

14:02:14 <Zakim> +[Garlik]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[Garlik]

14:02:17 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-06-08
14:02:29 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] is temporaily me

Steve Harris: Zakim, [Garlik] is temporaily me

14:02:29 <Zakim> I don't understand '[Garlik] is temporaily me', SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '[Garlik] is temporaily me', SteveH

14:02:39 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily me

Steve Harris: Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily me

14:02:39 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it

14:02:39 <AxelPolleres> scribe: SteveH

(Scribe set to Steve Harris)

14:02:48 <AxelPolleres> chair: AxelPolleres
14:02:52 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:03:03 <Zakim> +??P33

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33

14:03:08 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:03:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan, +1.603.897.aabb, SteveH, Sandro, ??P33

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan, +1.603.897.aabb, SteveH, Sandro, ??P33

14:03:22 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-06-08

Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-06-08

14:03:30 <Souri> zakim, aabb is me

Souripriya Das: zakim, aabb is me

14:03:30 <Zakim> +Souri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri; got it

14:03:30 <NicholasHumfrey> Zakim, ??P33 is me

Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, ??P33 is me

14:03:31 <Zakim> +NicholasHumfrey; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +NicholasHumfrey; got it

14:03:33 <SteveH> there's too much noise on the line

there's too much noise on the line

14:03:41 <SteveH> Zakim, who's speaking?

Zakim, who's speaking?

14:03:44 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-06-08

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-06-08

14:03:51 <Zakim> SteveH, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (8%), Sandro (38%), Ivan (20%)

Zakim IRC Bot: SteveH, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (8%), Sandro (38%), Ivan (20%)

14:04:05 <sandro> better?

Sandro Hawke: better?

14:04:11 <SteveH> sandro, yes, thanks

sandro, yes, thanks

14:04:12 <NicholasHumfrey> yes

Nicholas Humfrey: yes

14:04:23 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-06-01

PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-06-01

14:04:40 <SteveH> +1

+1

14:04:43 <NicholasHumfrey> +1

Nicholas Humfrey: +1

14:04:48 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-06-01

RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-06-01

14:05:14 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

14:05:19 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: all comments are assigned, look at page please

Axel Polleres: all comments are assigned, look at page please

14:05:28 <SteveH> ... some old ones are still open

... some old ones are still open

14:05:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:05:43 <LeeF> zakim, IPcaller is me

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, IPcaller is me

14:05:43 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF; got it

14:06:19 <SteveH> ... IRI creating comment, I will reply

... IRI creating comment, I will reply

14:06:33 <SteveH> ... doesn't look too bad, but please update

... doesn't look too bad, but please update

14:06:58 <AxelPolleres> topic: liaisons

1. liaisons

14:07:29 <SteveH> Souri: rdf2rdb has progress, almost ready to publish

Souripriya Das: rdf2rdb has progress, almost ready to publish

14:07:36 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:07:47 <AxelPolleres> ack sandro

Axel Polleres: ack sandro

14:07:52 <LeeF> (I don't think the RDB group needs a UC&R review from the SPARQL WG)

Lee Feigenbaum: (I don't think the RDB group needs a UC&R review from the SPARQL WG)

14:08:13 <SteveH> sandro: rif, today is the last day of the review period

Sandro Hawke: rif, today is the last day of the review period

14:08:28 <SteveH> ... egov, working on charter for linked data for govt. working group

... egov, working on charter for linked data for govt. working group

14:08:45 <SteveH> ... lots of enthusiasm, put together some education and outreach, plus more serious stuff

... lots of enthusiasm, put together some education and outreach, plus more serious stuff

14:08:52 <SteveH> ... might produce recommendations

... might produce recommendations

14:09:16 <OlivierCorby> Not able to join the telcon, the phone is out of order here ...

Olivier Corby: Not able to join the telcon, the phone is out of order here ...

14:09:29 <AxelPolleres> topic: http rdf update TC

2. http rdf update TC

14:09:33 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-06-07

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-06-07

14:09:38 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: update minutes

Axel Polleres: update minutes

14:10:15 <SteveH> ... no resolutions, but base URI agreement on how it's addressed, proposed text from chime

... no resolutions, but base URI agreement on how it's addressed, proposed text from chime

14:10:31 <SteveH> ... will add example for when there no BASE in the payload

... will add example for when there no BASE in the payload

14:10:46 <SteveH> ... resolved terminology change re. networked rdf knowledge

... resolved terminology change re. networked rdf knowledge

14:11:04 <Souri> UC&R FPWD for RDB2RDF: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/use-cases/

Souripriya Das: UC&R FPWD for RDB2RDF: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/use-cases/

14:11:09 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/49

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/49

14:11:16 <SteveH> ... discussion about graph URIs er. ISSE-49

... discussion about graph URIs er. ISSE-49

14:11:32 <SteveH> ... not sure what to do about URIs which [sth] when you reference them

... not sure what to do about URIs which [sth] when you reference them

14:11:52 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues#httpRange-14

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues#httpRange-14

14:12:30 <SteveH> ... want to point out that we dont want to discourage, we expect that some might allow HTTP and other protocol

... want to point out that we dont want to discourage, we expect that some might allow HTTP and other protocol

14:12:56 <SteveH> ... want to say that it might lead to ambiguity, give general warning, point to TAG issue

... want to say that it might lead to ambiguity, give general warning, point to TAG issue

14:13:03 <SteveH> ... how/can we do that?

... how/can we do that?

14:13:20 <SteveH> ... can we reference a TAG issue in a Rec track document?

... can we reference a TAG issue in a Rec track document?

14:13:26 <Zakim> + +0186528aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186528aacc

14:13:33 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:13:33 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bglimm, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

14:13:38 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

14:13:42 <SteveH> ivan: I think the answer is yes, but not sure

Ivan Herman: I think the answer is yes, but not sure

14:13:46 <bglimm> Zakim, +0186528aacc is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, +0186528aacc is me

14:13:46 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

14:13:52 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:13:52 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

14:14:06 <SteveH> AndyS: the TAG findings aren't recs, what standing do they have

Andy Seaborne: the TAG findings aren't recs, what standing do they have

14:14:26 <SteveH> ivan: "TAG findings" - they have no other official standing

Ivan Herman: "TAG findings" - they have no other official standing

14:14:28 <AxelPolleres> Can we give it as an informal reference?

Axel Polleres: Can we give it as an informal reference?

14:14:57 <SteveH> sandro: we can't normatively reference them, but can informatively

Sandro Hawke: we can't normatively reference them, but can informatively

14:15:25 <SteveH> ... can't say "to find out how to do this look [at TAG finding]" cos it's not a Rec

... can't say "to find out how to do this look [at TAG finding]" cos it's not a Rec

14:16:03 <Souri> :-)

Souripriya Das: :-)

14:16:16 <sandro> Basically it's like with Turtle and CURIEs ---- we wanted the concept, but there was no REC, so we had to write it ourselves.

Sandro Hawke: Basically it's like with Turtle and CURIEs ---- we wanted the concept, but there was no REC, so we had to write it ourselves.

14:16:16 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: either quote text, or reference it informatively

Axel Polleres: either quote text, or reference it informatively

14:16:34 <sandro> Yes, we do.

Sandro Hawke: Yes, we do.

14:16:36 <AxelPolleres> normative and informative references.

Axel Polleres: normative and informative references.

14:17:05 <AxelPolleres> best solution is probably a combination.

Axel Polleres: best solution is probably a combination.

14:17:07 <SteveH> AndyS: we take textual forms from Turtle, and include them in the document

Andy Seaborne: we take textual forms from Turtle, and include them in the document

14:17:22 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: explain possible ambiguity, and informally reference

Axel Polleres: explain possible ambiguity, and informally reference

14:17:37 <bglimm> But the Wuery spec says: This document uses the http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/turtle/ [TURTLE] data format to show each triple explicitly.

Birte Glimm: But the Wuery spec says: This document uses the http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/turtle/ [TURTLE] data format to show each triple explicitly.

14:17:50 <bglimm> s/Wuery/Query/

Birte Glimm: s/Wuery/Query/

14:18:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to convey summary to chime:  explain possible ambiguity, and informally reference TAG issue.

ACTION: axel to convey summary to chime: explain possible ambiguity, and informally reference TAG issue.

14:18:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-255 - Convey summary to chime:  explain possible ambiguity, and informally reference TAG issue. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-06-15].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-255 - Convey summary to chime: explain possible ambiguity, and informally reference TAG issue. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-06-15].

14:18:29 <kasei> Zakim, mute me

Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me

14:18:29 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted

14:18:37 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: there's a red box in the document, it's enough to drop it

Axel Polleres: there's a red box in the document, it's enough to drop it

14:18:38 <Souri> s/chime/Chime/

Souripriya Das: s/chime/Chime/

14:18:49 <SteveH> ... discussion about other terms, and distinctions

... discussion about other terms, and distinctions

14:19:01 <AxelPolleres> unclear "network-manipulable RDF dataset" and distinction from "graph store" and "endpoint" needs clarification

Axel Polleres: unclear "network-manipulable RDF dataset" and distinction from "graph store" and "endpoint" needs clarification

14:19:18 <AndyS> bglimm, that's for the data in examples; not the SPARQL syntax (although that isn't as formal as I'd like)

Andy Seaborne: bglimm, that's for the data in examples; not the SPARQL syntax (although that isn't as formal as I'd like)

14:19:21 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: overall doc on good track

Axel Polleres: overall doc on good track

14:19:39 <SteveH> Topic: find possible slot for testcases call

3. find possible slot for testcases call

14:19:44 <bglimm> Ah, I thought it is for the whole doc including where parts of queries

Birte Glimm: Ah, I thought it is for the whole doc including where parts of queries

14:19:49 <AndyS> bglimm, c.f. "4.2 Syntax for Triple  Patterns"

Andy Seaborne: bglimm, c.f. "4.2 Syntax for Triple Patterns"

14:20:19 <AxelPolleres> http://www.doodle.com/ctb2a6t3bxup8t4d

Axel Polleres: http://www.doodle.com/ctb2a6t3bxup8t4d

14:20:26 <bglimm> AndyS, I see what you mean

Birte Glimm: AndyS, I see what you mean

14:20:41 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: there are several actions on collecting testcases

Axel Polleres: there are several actions on collecting testcases

14:20:51 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/191

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/191

14:21:11 <SteveH> ... would be helpful to have emails pointing to testcases

... would be helpful to have emails pointing to testcases

14:21:27 <SteveH> ... don't need to be formal, just want to track them

... don't need to be formal, just want to track them

14:21:40 <SteveH> ... people are responsible for collecting them

... people are responsible for collecting them

14:22:11 <SteveH> ... david, Olivier, AxelPolleres have outstanding actions

... david, Olivier, AxelPolleres have outstanding actions

14:22:26 <SteveH> ... make sure that you fill out the poll

... make sure that you fill out the poll

14:23:04 <SteveH> Topic: Function Library

4. Function Library

14:23:06 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0309.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0309.html

14:23:18 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: AndyS has added several functions

Axel Polleres: AndyS has added several functions

14:23:44 <SteveH> ... main question is what's open

... main question is what's open

14:23:53 <SteveH> ... put some more links about this

... put some more links about this

14:24:11 <SteveH> ... one question is what about xquery and xpath F&O, we have initial list proposed by AndyS

... one question is what about xquery and xpath F&O, we have initial list proposed by AndyS

14:24:11 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0244.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0244.html

14:24:25 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:FunctionLibrary#Starting_Points

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:FunctionLibrary#Starting_Points

14:24:29 <SteveH> ... incorporated in wiki doc ^

... incorporated in wiki doc ^

14:24:38 <SteveH> ... and we have one more doc on the wiki

... and we have one more doc on the wiki

14:24:41 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary

14:24:51 <SteveH> ... also half baked

... also half baked

14:25:15 <SteveH> ... do we reuse URIs in F&O?

... do we reuse URIs in F&O?

14:25:58 <SteveH> ... AFAIR, we have had some discussion about namespaces

... AFAIR, we have had some discussion about namespaces

14:26:16 <SteveH> ... keywords v's namespaced URIs

... keywords v's namespaced URIs

14:26:30 <SteveH> AndyS: I don't remember that dicsussion

Andy Seaborne: I don't remember that dicsussion

14:26:39 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

14:26:41 <SteveH> ... there are some functions that dont exsists elsewhere

... there are some functions that dont exsists elsewhere

14:26:55 <SteveH> ... have to assign URIs

... have to assign URIs

14:27:14 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:27:31 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: do we have a namespace already for the sparql F&O

Axel Polleres: do we have a namespace already for the sparql F&O

14:27:44 <SteveH> ivan: I did set one up.

Ivan Herman: I did set one up.

14:28:04 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: could look at initial draft

Axel Polleres: could look at initial draft

14:28:10 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql.html

Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql.html

14:28:36 <AxelPolleres> that should be fine...

Axel Polleres: that should be fine...

14:28:53 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml#func-coalesce

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml#func-coalesce

14:29:10 <SteveH> ivan: it's obvious what you have to do to add more items

Ivan Herman: it's obvious what you have to do to add more items

14:29:26 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: that would affect all the operators that are new in SPARQL

Axel Polleres: that would affect all the operators that are new in SPARQL

14:29:34 <SteveH> ivan: yes

Ivan Herman: yes

14:29:49 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: things in §15.4 need URIs

Axel Polleres: things in §15.4 need URIs

14:30:10 <SteveH> ivan: I will update doc if you send me changes

Ivan Herman: I will update doc if you send me changes

14:30:29 <AndyS> For Ivan: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml#SparqlOps

Andy Seaborne: For Ivan: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml#SparqlOps

14:30:35 <kasei> ivan, might be nice to assert rdf:type sd:Function for the functions in /ns/sparql

Gregory Williams: ivan, might be nice to assert rdf:type sd:Function for the functions in /ns/sparql

14:30:43 <AxelPolleres> 15.4.14 COALESCE

Axel Polleres: 15.4.14 COALESCE

14:31:42 <AxelPolleres> COALESCE, IF, IN, NOT IN, IRI, URI, BNODE, STRDT, STRLANG

Axel Polleres: COALESCE, IF, IN, NOT IN, IRI, URI, BNODE, STRDT, STRLANG

14:31:44 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

14:31:57 <AxelPolleres> ack AndyS

Axel Polleres: ack AndyS

14:31:58 <AndyS> ack me

Andy Seaborne: ack me

14:32:24 <SteveH> ivan: better decided around a table with beer

Ivan Herman: better decided around a table with beer

14:32:31 <SteveH> ... new ones are all caps, old ones are not

... new ones are all caps, old ones are not

14:32:41 <ivan> if, in

Ivan Herman: if, in

14:32:45 <ivan>  and not IF and IN

Ivan Herman: and not IF and IN

14:32:47 <AndyS> SPARQL is case-insenitive keywords (except for "a")

Andy Seaborne: SPARQL is case-insenitive keywords (except for "a")

14:32:48 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: it would make sense to keep with what we had

Axel Polleres: it would make sense to keep with what we had

14:32:52 <kasei> they're all case insensitive in the language, though.

Gregory Williams: they're all case insensitive in the language, though.

14:33:18 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: it's difficult, for the short names we have camel case

Axel Polleres: it's difficult, for the short names we have camel case

14:33:20 <SteveH> q+

q+

14:33:26 <ivan> ack ivn

Ivan Herman: ack ivn

14:33:29 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

14:33:40 <kasei> yes. was just pointing it out because we don't have URIs for the old ones yet

Gregory Williams: yes. was just pointing it out because we don't have URIs for the old ones yet

14:34:20 <SteveH> ack me

ack me

14:34:23 <AxelPolleres> camelCase seems to be the URI candidates, capital used in the definition

Axel Polleres: camelCase seems to be the URI candidates, capital used in the definition

14:34:35 <AndyS> Yes - the grammar uses UC for clarity.  Examples use same case as section name (usually)

Andy Seaborne: Yes - the grammar uses UC for clarity. Examples use same case as section name (usually)

14:34:35 <SteveH> capital used in grammar/examples

capital used in grammar/examples

14:34:43 <Zakim> -NicholasHumfrey

Zakim IRC Bot: -NicholasHumfrey

14:34:49 <SteveH> AndyS, oh, sorry, thought it was UC in examples

AndyS, oh, sorry, thought it was UC in examples

14:34:56 <AndyS> "if" looks silly

Andy Seaborne: "if" looks silly

14:35:26 <AxelPolleres> notIn

Axel Polleres: notIn

14:35:36 <SteveH> +1 to ivan

+1 to ivan

14:35:49 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: just make it uniform

Axel Polleres: just make it uniform

14:36:01 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: ivan to buy beers in SF

ACTION: ivan to buy beers in SF

14:36:01 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan

14:36:01 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail)

Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail)

14:36:52 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: take this to mail

Axel Polleres: take this to mail

14:37:07 <SteveH> AndyS: are we putting the F&O set in this doc, or another, or somewhere else

Andy Seaborne: are we putting the F&O set in this doc, or another, or somewhere else

14:37:26 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: extension to core functions which we endorse should be in Q document

Axel Polleres: extension to core functions which we endorse should be in Q document

14:37:36 <SteveH> AndyS: who's going to write it

Andy Seaborne: who's going to write it

14:37:46 <Souri> 15.4.21 example needs a closing paranthesis: STRDT("123", xsd:integer

Souripriya Das: 15.4.21 example needs a closing paranthesis: STRDT("123", xsd:integer

14:37:49 <SteveH> ... it will take longer if I do it

... it will take longer if I do it

14:38:01 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: what new text do we need?

Axel Polleres: what new text do we need?

14:38:12 <SteveH> ... do we need to add examples for all these functions

... do we need to add examples for all these functions

14:38:14 <AndyS> souri - already fixed (in my copy)

Andy Seaborne: souri - already fixed (in my copy)

14:38:43 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: what's missing is the formulation, and adding examples [?]

Axel Polleres: what's missing is the formulation, and adding examples [?]

14:38:44 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml#func-coalesce

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml#func-coalesce

14:40:08 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary

14:40:21 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: not sure about issues around sequences

Axel Polleres: not sure about issues around sequences

14:40:34 <SteveH> AndyS: functions in [uri] are directly relevant to SPARQL, no seuences

Andy Seaborne: functions in [uri] are directly relevant to SPARQL, no seuences

14:40:44 <SteveH> ... arguments all values that we grok

... arguments all values that we grok

14:41:18 <SteveH> ... unclear what the proposed way forwards is about this list, how do we deal with rel. to F&O

... unclear what the proposed way forwards is about this list, how do we deal with rel. to F&O

14:41:24 <AxelPolleres> 3 options

Axel Polleres: 3 options

14:41:25 <SteveH> ... see 3 proposals

... see 3 proposals

14:41:39 <SteveH> ... 1) start from SQL

... 1) start from SQL

14:41:45 <LeeF> I think the 2nd of those proposals is the best

Lee Feigenbaum: I think the 2nd of those proposals is the best

14:41:46 <SteveH> ... 2) import a speicific set

... 2) import a speicific set

14:41:56 <SteveH> ... 3) point to F&O equiv

... 3) point to F&O equiv

14:42:32 <SteveH> ... in one there are two URIs

... in one there are two URIs

14:43:06 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: LeeF thinks we should import a specific set

Axel Polleres: LeeF thinks we should import a specific set

14:43:06 <LeeF> Is anyone wanting to advocate taking from SQL instead of XPath/XQuery ?

Lee Feigenbaum: Is anyone wanting to advocate taking from SQL instead of XPath/XQuery ?

14:43:24 <SteveH> ... if we import we can change them slightly if needed

... if we import we can change them slightly if needed

14:43:40 <sandro> (I'm wondering about taking from RIF, which took option 3.)

Sandro Hawke: (I'm wondering about taking from RIF, which took option 3.)

14:43:41 <SteveH> LeeF: not sure how much support there is to import from SQL

Lee Feigenbaum: not sure how much support there is to import from SQL

14:44:05 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: We have COALESCE and IF from SQL

Axel Polleres: We have COALESCE and IF from SQL

14:44:12 <LeeF> (i'd be fine with that approach as well, sandro. I don't know that much about the RIF function basis.)

Lee Feigenbaum: (i'd be fine with that approach as well, sandro. I don't know that much about the RIF function basis.)

14:44:14 <SteveH> ... strawpoll on 2) vs 3)

... strawpoll on 2) vs 3)

14:44:16 <AndyS> Interesting -sandro - why did it do that?

Andy Seaborne: Interesting -sandro - why did it do that?

14:44:28 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

14:44:33 <sandro> zakim, unmute me

Sandro Hawke: zakim, unmute me

14:44:33 <Zakim> Sandro should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Sandro should no longer be muted

14:44:44 <SteveH> sandro: story from RIF, having same debate

Sandro Hawke: story from RIF, having same debate

14:45:01 <SteveH> ... use URIs or make own, decided to make own URIs

... use URIs or make own, decided to make own URIs

14:45:16 <SteveH> ... needed to change semantics in a few places, watned to add a few things, users would like in same namesoace

... needed to change semantics in a few places, watned to add a few things, users would like in same namesoace

14:45:24 <SteveH> ... operators don't have URIs anyway

... operators don't have URIs anyway

14:45:28 <SteveH> q+

q+

14:45:34 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

14:45:39 <SteveH> ... should sparql and rif use same URIs

... should sparql and rif use same URIs

14:45:46 <SteveH> q-

q-

14:46:04 <SteveH> ... sparql and rif could coalesce on common uris, and they're both RDFy

... sparql and rif could coalesce on common uris, and they're both RDFy

14:46:13 <SteveH> AndyS: where did you have to change the smeantics

Andy Seaborne: where did you have to change the smeantics

14:46:22 <AxelPolleres> q+ to speak chair-hat off

Axel Polleres: q+ to speak chair-hat off

14:46:30 <SteveH> sandro: hoping AxelPolleres would remember, something about sequences

Sandro Hawke: hoping AxelPolleres would remember, something about sequences

14:46:48 <SteveH> ... sequences have unusual semantics

... sequences have unusual semantics

14:46:51 <AxelPolleres> erorrs, sequences, played a role

Axel Polleres: erorrs, sequences, played a role

14:46:55 <sandro> zakim, mute me

Sandro Hawke: zakim, mute me

14:46:55 <Zakim> Sandro should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Sandro should now be muted

14:46:58 <AxelPolleres> ack me

Axel Polleres: ack me

14:46:58 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to speak chair-hat off

Zakim IRC Bot: AxelPolleres, you wanted to speak chair-hat off

14:46:59 <SteveH> ... outside of that I don't remember the differences

... outside of that I don't remember the differences

14:47:06 <AndyS> q-

Andy Seaborne: q-

14:47:12 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: we had problems with errors too, no errors in RIF

Axel Polleres: we had problems with errors too, no errors in RIF

14:47:30 <SteveH> ... what would we do with errors

... what would we do with errors

14:47:36 <AndyS> SPARQL is F&O evaluation

Andy Seaborne: SPARQL is F&O evaluation

14:47:43 <sandro> (I think the errors bit is not worth doing a different URI over, personally, but I'm not a formalist.)

Sandro Hawke: (I think the errors bit is not worth doing a different URI over, personally, but I'm not a formalist.)

14:47:55 <AndyS> ... with errors being an extension point

Andy Seaborne: ... with errors being an extension point

14:48:32 <SteveH> ... if we use own namespace we dont have to think about which ones are keywords, if it has a URI in sparql namespace it can be used in syntax

... if we use own namespace we dont have to think about which ones are keywords, if it has a URI in sparql namespace it can be used in syntax

14:48:40 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:48:47 <sandro> q-

Sandro Hawke: q-

14:49:20 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: poll: keep F&O namespace, or give own [sparql] namespace

Axel Polleres: poll: keep F&O namespace, or give own [sparql] namespace

14:49:34 <SteveH> 1 - keep namespace

1 - keep namespace

14:49:39 <SteveH> 2 - sparql ns

2 - sparql ns

14:49:45 <AxelPolleres> 2

Axel Polleres: 2

14:49:46 <pgearon> 2

Paul Gearon: 2

14:49:48 <AndyS> Option 2 (reuse namespace + alloc a namespace for operators)

Andy Seaborne: Option 2 (reuse namespace + alloc a namespace for operators)

14:49:52 <kasei> 2 (mild preference, would like to see rif+sparql convergence)

Gregory Williams: 2 (mild preference, would like to see rif+sparql convergence)

14:49:56 <MattPerry> 2

Matthew Perry: 2

14:49:56 <bglimm> 2

Birte Glimm: 2

14:49:57 <SteveH> 1

1

14:50:11 <LeeF> 0

Lee Feigenbaum: 0

14:50:15 <sandro> 0 unsure.....

Sandro Hawke: 0 unsure.....

14:50:30 <AndyS> Option 1 (reuse namespace + alloc a namespace for operators)

Andy Seaborne: Option 1 (reuse namespace + alloc a namespace for operators)

14:50:47 <LeeF> Yeah, I agree with that

Lee Feigenbaum: Yeah, I agree with that

14:50:50 <LeeF> too many keywords :)

Lee Feigenbaum: too many keywords :)

14:52:54 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: op: ones are things that can be moddled with + etc. [?]

Axel Polleres: op: ones are things that can be moddled with + etc. [?]

14:53:02 <AxelPolleres>  op : � + -  !

Axel Polleres: op : � + - !

14:53:19 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0244.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0244.html

14:53:22 <SteveH> "op:" has no namespace officially

"op:" has no namespace officially

14:53:37 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: we dont have a URI for them

Axel Polleres: we dont have a URI for them

14:53:44 <AndyS> yes - but what about writing "op:numeric-add(?X, ?Y)"

Andy Seaborne: yes - but what about writing "op:numeric-add(?X, ?Y)"

14:54:15 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: you have to write the short form in xpath etc.

Axel Polleres: you have to write the short form in xpath etc.

14:54:50 <SteveH> ... datatypes depenends on how it's delegates

... datatypes depenends on how it's delegates

14:55:05 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary

14:55:23 <SteveH> ... not complete, but we should have op URI + shortcut

... not complete, but we should have op URI + shortcut

14:55:45 <SteveH> ... then shortcuts come from [sth]

... then shortcuts come from [sth]

14:56:01 <SteveH> ... should take to email, running out of time

... should take to email, running out of time

14:56:02 <AndyS> My pref: complete Design:FunctionLibrary as a design then take to WG.

Andy Seaborne: My pref: complete Design:FunctionLibrary as a design then take to WG.

14:56:55 <SteveH> AndyS: I don't have any time in next 2 weeks

Andy Seaborne: I don't have any time in next 2 weeks

14:57:01 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to work out http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary within 2 weeks

ACTION: Axel to work out http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary within 2 weeks

14:57:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-256 - Work out http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary within 2 weeks [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-06-15].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-256 - Work out http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:FunctionLibrary within 2 weeks [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-06-15].

14:57:41 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0311.�html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0311.�html

14:58:03 <SteveH> AndyS: couple of proposals, realtively decided on cardinality, want to work on details

Andy Seaborne: couple of proposals, realtively decided on cardinality, want to work on details

14:58:48 <Zakim> -LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF

14:59:12 <SteveH> AndyS: don't think there's enough detail to make proposal

Andy Seaborne: don't think there's enough detail to make proposal

14:59:59 <SteveH> ... matter of writing document and coming back with proposal

... matter of writing document and coming back with proposal

15:00:14 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: as long as you know where it's going

Axel Polleres: as long as you know where it's going

15:00:36 <SteveH> update next time

update next time

15:00:40 <SteveH> + other issues

+ other issues

15:00:51 <AndyS> At risk next time: AndyS

Andy Seaborne: At risk next time: AndyS

15:01:03 <Zakim> -bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm

15:01:08 <ivan> zakim, drop me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me

15:01:08 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected

15:01:09 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

15:01:10 <AxelPolleres> adjourned

Axel Polleres: adjourned

15:01:11 <Zakim> -SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH

15:01:15 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

15:01:15 <MattPerry> quit

Matthew Perry: quit

15:01:16 <Zakim> -kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei

15:01:18 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

15:01:19 <Zakim> -MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry

15:01:21 <Zakim> -pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon

15:01:23 <AxelPolleres> thanks steve for scribing...

Axel Polleres: thanks steve for scribing...

15:01:23 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:01:26 <SteveH> AxelPolleres, how do I make mins from the IRC?

AxelPolleres, how do I make mins from the IRC?

15:01:37 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public

Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make records public

15:01:56 <AxelPolleres> steve, will handle that... essentially: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html

Axel Polleres: steve, will handle that... essentially: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#1) generated 2010-06-08 15:04:58 UTC by 'apollere2', comments: None