See also: IRC log
<jar_> gotta reboot my computer. very weird, and weird timing
<jar_> oops seems to be ok now.
<jar_> also weird timing - it fixed itself just when i threatened it
<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/story.html
<timbl> JAR in principle
<dbooth> ScribeNick: jar_
<DanC> jar's msg http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-awwsw/2009Dec/0017.html
<dbooth> Scribe: jar
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/12/08-agenda
<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/12/08-agenda#HttpRedire
danc finding relevant part of tag meeting for us to review
<DanC> jar presented on the 9th http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/12/09-minutes.html#item01
<DanC> slides as presented http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Dec/0024.html
jar: The slides are in two parts, the awwsw part and the jar experimental part
danc: orresponds_to goes backwards
it gets indexed backwards
in ordinary speech, corresponds to is symmetric, which this isn't
<DanC> RESOURCE has information ENTITY
<DanC> (where in N3, 'has' is a noise word)
david: i like the speaks for stuff
jar: michael, do you see connection between conneg slide and your feb email to www-tag?
mh: yes
david: Looks like corresponds to
is broken down into speaks for and is about?
... httprange-14 slide - ??
danc: speaks for is its own
world, different from the http world
... the slide asks: what if you connect the two?
david: what if you treat sf as a subproperty of corr_to?
danc: walk through examples - that will show answer
mh: What precisely is missing -
for final report?
... The deadline in dec was very good
danc: An audience is its own deadline. In Dec audience was the TAG.
<DanC> (pointer to list of outstanding issues?)
mh: Need something more complete by march
<mhausenblas> pickup agenda item 2
<DanC> Revision: 1.26
slight fixes from 25 to 26.
<timbl> wonder which of 30 windows and tabs is running a talk on language acquisition
danc: Different editorial style compared to jar
david: It's going very smoothly, very nice
mh: What's the motivation? You could have used FOL?
danc: The later use is supposed to motivate it
we do use FOL with quoting
danc: but you need some way to
have statements with term
... i have a reasoner that uses URIs as terms
david: Why does WSJ have different relationship?
danc: When bob reads the WSJ web page he doesn't read any further
<DanC> * perhaps elaborate WSJ c:controls { Fed rate ?R }. using quoting
david: Why different from [other case]?
danc: ... it introduces says,
speaks for a la ABLP axioms
... the 'quoting' operator
david: Why do you need 'quoting' - not just 'says'?
danc: sugar
... cwm has a lot of trouble with dequoting ('controls')
... That onto is broken. borrows from cyc.
<timbl> danc: The owl time ontology is horribly broken
mh: Overlapping intervals and so on, seems good?
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/httpspeech.html
danc: Don't expect people to want to read n3 rules in this document
<mhausenblas> Michael: I was referring to http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/
danc: Borrowed http in rdf --
need to fix it if it turns out to be broken
... (seems related to powder?)
... Status code numbers - ontologically unfortunate
<timbl> ("status codes are alreday numbers")
danc: Referring to 'get' method
for usage of 'information ... with'
... Connection - found a bit of ABLP in HTTP spec even without
the controversial assumption
after 2nd note in httpspeech
<timbl> Maybe s/corresponds to/expresses/ ?
about what the *connection* says.
danc: jar wanted to account for buggy proxy servers
<mhausenblas> I'm looking http://rdfs.org/ns/void-guide#sec_2_1_Classic_vs_3rd_party
mh: looking at a special case of
linked data where there is a third party linking data
sets
... hugh glasser from southampton... does this still hold?
danc: You need an independent
policy that determines whether the 3rd party controls the
information
... 3r party = non authoritative. Trusted means you start
believing them
david: Only origin servers are
authoritative ... trying to understand
... The statement in question is res information E, yes?
danc: yes
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/httpsocial.html
jar: Be very careful about how and when the corresponds / speaksfor axiom is used
david: Re misconfigured server
issue
... couple of ways to think of the resource. We could say
there's no such thing as a misconfigured server, only bogus
resources
danc: So when does the resource speak for the domain owner? Let's see....
david: Sort of like a misconfigured telephone answering system
danc: Inadequate level of mistrust - people vs. computers - we trust computers too much
david: Melissa on the phone is different from resource on internet, but similar
danc: How do we figure out that
conneg of is/is about is a lose?
... limits of conneg? picture and description of picture?
<mhausenblas> DanC, you actually answered to my question (indirectly ;) see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Nov/0083.html
'indirection needs redirection' - danc reviewing
david: stuck on n3 - replaced the manifesto file with some data
"The organization replaced the manifesto file on the server with some metadata about the manifesto,"
david: comes from which server?
danc: This is just a statement about the world
<Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to ask on http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/badmeta-pf.html
'contraction' axiom in logic
<DanC> (I can live with light scribing)
<mhausenblas> scribenick: mhausenblas
<DanC> * perhaps picture in inches, description in centimeters
DanC: maybe an example with a picture (in vs cm)
dbooth: depends on the coding
process (lossy/gainy)
... for example JPEG
DanC: Mashup Speech Acts (with XSRF example)
<DanC> typo: "credentials to for all requests that the user is authorized to make:"
<DanC> perhaps change conclusion to: bobAccount debit "1000000". malloryAccount credit "1000000"
<DanC> * clarify: "he has a current cookie"
<DanC> * fix "We know that Q1 speaks for mallory, not bob, "
<DanC> * perhaps "Lets look at the bank's (faulty) reasoning."
<dbooth> DBooth: Need to say "Mallory causes Bob's browser to issue this request ..."
DanC makes dbooth read 'Mashups and the Same Origin Policy' out loud
<DanC> * perhaps another layer between hs:messageEntity and information for parsing
Michael: what's the plan with this document?
DanC: got some todos in
there
... review is useful
<dbooth> Here is ABLP: http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/SRC-RR-70.html
<dbooth> DBooth: This is nice, Dan! The more you can do on this, the better.
<dbooth> ADJOURNED
thanks a lot DanC - KUTGW! ;)
<DanC> SRC-RR-70 has the same content, but for copy/paste purposes, the other citation works better http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/gdp/publications/Calculus_for_Access_Control.pdf <- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/story.html#toplas93
cya all in 2010
<dbooth> :)
ta
<DanC> AwwswHome topic
<DanC> s///