<trackbot> Date: 10 December 2009

<scribe> Scribe: anthony

Next Telcon

DS: The next Telcon will be the 6th
... no wait
... Monday January 4th 2010

AG: I might not be there for that telcon
... flying back from Townsville

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to Email the SVG Working Group list informing members when the next telcon is going to be (after the break) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2704 - Email the SVG Working Group list informing members when the next telcon is going to be (after the break) [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-12-17].

Face-to-face

DS: We do not have quorum for meeting in Sydney
... so will have to cancel that

AG: So when will the next F2F be?
... or will it still be around that time?

ED: When is Libre graphics?

<ed> http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index_static.html

DS: AKA LGM, is Belgium

ED: 26th to 29th May 2010

DS: If we are going to have a meeting before then
... JWatt said Feb works for him

<ed> http://www.fosdem.org/2010/

ED: There is also Fosdem

<ed> 6-7 feb 2010

<ed> also brussels

ED: JWatt didn't want a conflict with

DS: So anytime around then works for me
... and I guess we'll be going to Europe
... if we going to have one at all
... I've been thinking about a DOM API summit
... get a bunch of people together
... for a couple of days
... and work out a good API
... get a bunch of requirements
... have people put forward proposals
... then have a discussion and hopefully come up with a model
... that can be used
... some major browser vendors have offered to host it
... Erik can you fly to the US in Jan/Feb?
... or March?

ED: March would be fine

DS: It wouldn't be exclusively SVG
... if we had it on the West coast, it might help JWatt
... This might be a fruitful alternative to an SVG F2F

AG: Have this as an alternative?

DS: Have 2 or 3 days SVG F2F and then a DOM Summit
... Might even have more days than that - 5 days depending how long people can attend for

<scribe> ACTION: Doug to Look into details of a DOM summit/SVG meeting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2705 - Look into details of a DOM summit/SVG meeting [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-12-17].

DS: I guess we can't really decide right now where the next F2F will be

Collaboration with CSS

DS: I spoke with a Designer on the CSS WG - Tab Atkins
... he's the editor on the CSS Gradients specification

<shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/Overview.html

DS: it's actually CSS Image Values
... we talked about his proposal
... there are some things that seem very funky to me
... with the syntax
... somethings you can do that you can't do with SVG gradients
... We agreed that we want the models as similar as possible
... including the syntax
... how would you guys feel about forming a task force with CSS Working Group
... and working on some things with them
... It would part of the Paint Servers work

AG: As long as it can be extend at some point

ED: There's also text shadow as well

DS: These are some of things we should be collaborating on
... making sure they have the same syntax will be a real win for authors
... I propose we act on it
... I asked PLH about this
... He supported the idea as long as the deliverable is in the Charter
... a Taskforce is something the Chairs set up
... and had nothing to do with the Team
... So Erik is it possible to do this

ED: Sounds likes a good idea

DS: You will have to write to the CSS WG with a formal proposal

AG: Just looking at the CSS Gradients
... it looks like the geometry of the gradient is modified according to the bounding box of the gradient
... well at least it can be specified to behave that way
... wouldn't be hard to do in SVG, just need another parameter

DS: They can specify a start point and an angle rather than an end point

AG: That's also not a bad idea

DS: So there's a lot of points that we can collaborate on
... and CSS WG has designers which might be able to help us

DOM3 Event TransformX/Y

DS: We all no this problem
... if you write a drag and drop script
... as soon as you introduce transforms or a viewBox and you try to drag it
... X/Y are offset from where the mouse pointer is
... and it is really painful
... JWatt proposed putting this into DOM 3 Events
... since CSS has proposed Transforms
... they will run into the same problems
... as we did
... I'm proposing for DOM 3 Events
... we have Tx/Ty
... Transform X and Transform Y
... and it unwinds the transformation matrix to get the actual viewPort X and Y
... client X and client Y would be good if they had the right algorithms behind them but they don't

AG: If we have to unwind the matrix
... we'd have to get the inverse matrix
... is that right ED?

ED: Yes, can't always get the inverse

<ed> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invertible_matrix

AG: The idea has merit but there some cases where it will fail

DS: Where abouts?

ED: Scale 0
... trying to think of other cases

DS: If there are predictable cases you could specify don't do calculations on these cases

ED: You can do a a cheap calculation to determine if you can get an inverse
... but you may not want to do that all the time

DS: I'll show you both the script I'm working on
... and you can give me feedback over email

<scribe> ACTION: Doug to Send in details to the list on DOM 3 Transform X/Y for feedback [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2706 - Send in details to the list on DOM 3 Transform X/Y for feedback [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-12-17].

<ed> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinant

ED: If you want the math behind it, you can calculate the determinant

<ed> for a 3x3 matrix: det (A) = aei − afh + bfg − bdi + cdh − ceg.

ED: which will tell you if the matrix is invertable

<ed> if that's 0 it's noninvertible

ED: Are you suggesting to have properties on the Event interface?

DS: Yes, on any event that has x, y attributes, like the mouse event interface event types
... you'd also have Tx, Ty
... that would be the value in the transformation space of the element
... Any place we have transform it would be nice to have the individual attributes
... Translate X, Translate Y, etc
... It would be nice to just have those individual transforms and have a predefined order they are applied in

SVG 1.1

ED: Converting Opera internal intersection list tests
... to use the W3C template
... and reviewing the tests that Cameron wrote
... there are two or three tests on my to-do list

DS: There's a couple of actions I can do

AG: Same

<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

ED: The Java bindings appendix is done

<scribe> ... pending review

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: the other one I'm doing is intersection list and clarification for that
... I might be able to take on more actions
... if people are having trouble with
... was thinking of taking ACTION-2676

<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Send Doug the location of the tables for the integration specification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2707 - Send Doug the location of the tables for the integration specification [on Anthony Grasso - due 2009-12-17].

Happy Holidays everyone!

<ChrisL> sorry to miss the call gus, i had a transition call to do, standing in for plh

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/well will/we did/
Succeeded: s/on that/on the Event interface/
Succeeded: s/on any event that has mouse event interface/on any event that has x, y attributes, like the mouse event interface event types/
Found Scribe: anthony
Inferring ScribeNick: anthony
Default Present: Shepazu, [IPcaller], ed, anthony
Present: Shepazu [IPcaller] ed anthony
Found Date: 10 Dec 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: anthony doug erik