See also: IRC log
<ian_oliver> Do we have a timezone problem here?
<ian_oliver> What time does the conference start in UTC?
let me check
at 4pm GMT
in about 40 mins
<ian_oliver> According to Yolanda's original email it should be 17h00 EET ... will have to give apologies but can not attend at this time
<YolandaG> who is on the phone
<scribe> Scribe: Jun
<scribe> ScribeNick: junzhao
<raphael> trackbot, start telecon
<trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 13 November 2009
<raphael> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
<scribe> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Nov/0014.html
yolanda: what should be our goals for these use cases?
a common ground for discussion, and to stimulate, and to describe motivations in a unified way
YolandaG: we should have enough richness in them without having to have too many of them
how can we know when we are done
particular challenges of provenance on the semantic web, e.g. social web, linked data, such as granularity problem
<pgroth> yolanda, what do you exactly mean by area?
maybe something between 10-20? what does the group think?
yolanda: criteria for judging or accepting a use case, e.g., richness, details, etc
<Paulo> should we understand the users of provenance, e.g., scientists, intelligent agents, ordinary web users
paulgroth: what do you mean about "areas"?
yolanda: who will care about provenance. that's what "area" refers to
areas working on semantics e.g. web of trust, on reasoning algorithms; or communities, e.g., hclsig
not sure whether "technology areas" are the right way to go
paulo: scientists v.s. ordinary users have different requirements; and why we are restricted on semantic web
yolanda: we are not restricted to semantic web
we can be driven by semantic web, but some aspects and solutions might come across in the process
<pgroth> for paolo comment
paulo: provenance as an opportunity for us to show semantic web technologies to web users
simon: identifying the technical challenges is important for identifying the gaps
and tie technical challenges with users
paolo: what is the purpose for building a metrix? what to get out of the use cases?
maybe we can get volunteers to check whether something unanticipated emerged from the use cases
paulgroth: gather use cases,
classify them, identify exemplars, which might help with our
... e.g. all use cases that do with attributions, or with validating the process against a particular guideline
paulo: further comments on the metrix
luc: our previous exercise of gathering use case was driven by the goal to design an architecture; but for the xg, the goal is different
<pgroth> +1 on technical requirements
use these use cases to classify the state-of-the-art systems
jcheney: +1 to luc
<pgroth> jcheney, add to use case page on the wiki
jcheney: was organizing several workshops last week and a lot of provenance requirements were raised there; gather provenance outside the community
how about security problems
which doesn't matter in scientific domain; but this matters in many other domains
paolo: not worried about too many
use cases; the more the better since the matrix would be quite
... are there any success stories of provenance
what takes to lead to more success stories?
deborah: what should success be?
<Paolo> Deb: yes that would be a success story
<Paolo> "provenance in actual use to realize use cases to users' satisfaction" is what I meant by success stories
deborah: classification of use cases is very important, as learnt from owl use case gathering process
<pgroth> deb's comment jives with luc's comment
<Paolo> Deb: I agree this is a proper use of use case analysis
<Paolo> i.e. technical gap analysis with prioritization
<scribe> ACTION: yolanda to group current use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: No child element named 'id') - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
<jcheney> I added some links to furher use case sources to the wiki.
<scribe> ACTION: YolandaG to group current use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - YolandaG
<pgroth> what are the chapters?
luc: the chapter structure might provide some classification
<scribe> ACTION: YolandaG, Paul and Luc to take a look at the survey paper and present it to the group next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - YolandaG,
<Paolo> Yolanda: yes, I would like to be
<pgroth> should we just do the discussion on the mailing list?
<Deborah> i am happy to be involved in the discussion
<ssahoo2> I would be happy to join the discussion on the use cases
yolanda: what criteria can we use to evaluate a use case
simon: a bit confused by use cases from other working group, since not enough context is there
the classification may be used to draw a line on the use cases
satya: we should try to refine the quality of the use cases
as part of the evaluation process; try to get the authors involved during the evaluation process
luc: following on simon. have a small committee to review use cases, and provide constructive comments for improvement
paolo: having members from the group to take charge on the quality control
<ssahoo2> I think Paolo meant - to post a message to the mailing list when items are added to the wiki
<pgroth> could do
<jmccuske> one sec
jmccuske: scientific workflow, biology, general research
deb: categories, intelligence use case, success stories
andrea: trust, linked data, workflows
joshua: elaborate caBIG related use cases,
james: database provenance; scientific data related;climate changes, climate science
<Deborah> deborah:add proof / explanation reqs. also reqs from
pgroth: social science, scientific publication, provenance on the web for web mashups
<Deborah> data.gov provenance
<jmccuske> jmccuske: caBIG related use cases
simon: scientific use cases, humanities possibly; querying large scale provenance; engineer system provenance
luc: provenance on the web; check compliance; provenance for security; interoperability between provenance systems
irini; biology, escience, provenance for linked data, query updates
olaf: information quality for linked data
paolo: scientists users, who require semantic tools; query language for provenance
chris: provenance tracking in mashups and linked data cases
bertram: scientific workflows, linked data
satya: domain semantics in provenance, provenance query, biomedicine, success stories
<ssahoo2> satya: sensor networks
jun: life science, semantic tagging and publishing, scientific workflow, information quality for linked data
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