13 Nov 2009


See also: IRC log


Yolanda Gil




<ian_oliver> Do we have a timezone problem here?

<ian_oliver> What time does the conference start in UTC?

let me check

at 4pm GMT

in about 40 mins

<ian_oliver> According to Yolanda's original email it should be 17h00 EET ... will have to give apologies but can not attend at this time

ok ian.

<YolandaG> who is on the phone

<scribe> Scribe: Jun

<scribe> ScribeNick: junzhao

<raphael> trackbot, start telecon

<trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 13 November 2009

Introduce yourself

<raphael> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference

<scribe> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Nov/0014.html

The progress in general for generating use cases

yolanda: what should be our goals for these use cases?

a common ground for discussion, and to stimulate, and to describe motivations in a unified way

YolandaG: we should have enough richness in them without having to have too many of them

how can we know when we are done

particular challenges of provenance on the semantic web, e.g. social web, linked data, such as granularity problem

<pgroth> yolanda, what do you exactly mean by area?

maybe something between 10-20? what does the group think?

yolanda: criteria for judging or accepting a use case, e.g., richness, details, etc

<pgroth> +q

<Paulo> should we understand the users of provenance, e.g., scientists, intelligent agents, ordinary web users

<Paulo> +q

paulgroth: what do you mean about "areas"?

yolanda: who will care about provenance. that's what "area" refers to

areas working on semantics e.g. web of trust, on reasoning algorithms; or communities, e.g., hclsig

not sure whether "technology areas" are the right way to go

paulo: scientists v.s. ordinary users have different requirements; and why we are restricted on semantic web

yolanda: we are not restricted to semantic web

we can be driven by semantic web, but some aspects and solutions might come across in the process

<pgroth> +1

<pgroth> for paolo comment

paulo: provenance as an opportunity for us to show semantic web technologies to web users

<pgroth> +q

<smiles> +q

<Paolo> +q

simon: identifying the technical challenges is important for identifying the gaps

and tie technical challenges with users

paolo: what is the purpose for building a metrix? what to get out of the use cases?

maybe we can get volunteers to check whether something unanticipated emerged from the use cases

<jcheney> +jcheney

paulgroth: gather use cases, classify them, identify exemplars, which might help with our metrix
... e.g. all use cases that do with attributions, or with validating the process against a particular guideline

paulo: further comments on the metrix

luc: our previous exercise of gathering use case was driven by the goal to design an architecture; but for the xg, the goal is different

<pgroth> +1 on technical requirements

use these use cases to classify the state-of-the-art systems

jcheney: +1 to luc

<pgroth> jcheney, add to use case page on the wiki

jcheney: was organizing several workshops last week and a lot of provenance requirements were raised there; gather provenance outside the community

how about security problems

which doesn't matter in scientific domain; but this matters in many other domains

<pgroth> +q

paolo: not worried about too many use cases; the more the better since the matrix would be quite complex
... are there any success stories of provenance

what takes to lead to more success stories?

<Deborah> +q

deborah: what should success be?

<Paolo> Deb: yes that would be a success story

<Paolo> "provenance in actual use to realize use cases to users' satisfaction" is what I meant by success stories

deborah: classification of use cases is very important, as learnt from owl use case gathering process

<pgroth> deb's comment jives with luc's comment

<Paolo> Deb: I agree this is a proper use of use case analysis

<Paolo> i.e. technical gap analysis with prioritization

<pgroth> +q

<scribe> ACTION: yolanda to group current use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: No child element named 'id') - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.

<jcheney> I added some links to furher use case sources to the wiki.

<scribe> ACTION: YolandaG to group current use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - YolandaG

<pgroth> what are the chapters?

luc: the chapter structure might provide some classification

<scribe> ACTION: YolandaG, Paul and Luc to take a look at the survey paper and present it to the group next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - YolandaG,

<Paolo> Yolanda: yes, I would like to be

<pgroth> should we just do the discussion on the mailing list?

<Deborah> i am happy to be involved in the discussion

<ssahoo2> I would be happy to join the discussion on the use cases

yolanda: what criteria can we use to evaluate a use case

simon: a bit confused by use cases from other working group, since not enough context is there

the classification may be used to draw a line on the use cases

satya: we should try to refine the quality of the use cases

as part of the evaluation process; try to get the authors involved during the evaluation process

luc: following on simon. have a small committee to review use cases, and provide constructive comments for improvement

paolo: having members from the group to take charge on the quality control

<ssahoo2> I think Paolo meant - to post a message to the mailing list when items are added to the wiki

<pgroth> could do

describe how yourself can contribute to the use cases

<jmccuske> one sec

jmccuske: scientific workflow, biology, general research

deb: categories, intelligence use case, success stories

andrea: trust, linked data, workflows

joshua: elaborate caBIG related use cases,

james: database provenance; scientific data related;climate changes, climate science

<Deborah> deborah:add proof / explanation reqs. also reqs from

pgroth: social science, scientific publication, provenance on the web for web mashups

<Deborah> data.gov provenance

<jmccuske> jmccuske: caBIG related use cases

simon: scientific use cases, humanities possibly; querying large scale provenance; engineer system provenance

luc: provenance on the web; check compliance; provenance for security; interoperability between provenance systems

irini; biology, escience, provenance for linked data, query updates

olaf: information quality for linked data

paolo: scientists users, who require semantic tools; query language for provenance

chris: provenance tracking in mashups and linked data cases

bertram: scientific workflows, linked data

satya: domain semantics in provenance, provenance query, biomedicine, success stories

<ssahoo2> satya: sensor networks

jun: life science, semantic tagging and publishing, scientific workflow, information quality for linked data

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: yolanda to group current use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: YolandaG to group current use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: YolandaG, Paul and Luc to take a look at the survey paper and present it to the group next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2009/11/13 16:58:16 $

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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Deborah DeborahMcGuinness Irini Ivan Jerry_Hobbs P1 P15 P17 P2 P21 P4 P5 P7 Paolo Paulo Prateek ScribeNick YolandaG aabb aadd afreitas andrea bertram bertrand_lutaesc chris deb ian_oliver james jcheney jmccuske joined joshua jun junzhao luc olaf paulgroth pgroth prov-xg raphael satya simon smiles ssahoo2 trackbot yolanda
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Nov/0014.html
Found Date: 13 Nov 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html
People with action items: luc paul yolanda yolandag

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