See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 11 November 2009
<Tina> Steven: then I've not ... bah. Be right there.
agenda request - XHTML Role and ARIA and extension of roles in aria and expansion of pre-defined roles, in particular "form"
using the web based IRC client, so not very feedback
addition of the term "form" as a predefined role for the XHTML2 Role Module: XHTML2 WG ISSUE-5: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/issues/5
<ShaneM> low tech crap
shane's proposal in email archive: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Apr/0055.html
<Steven> My phone died
<ShaneM> we got your voice mail. lol
<ShaneM> again
best thing about the cold is you can always get warmer, can only do so much oneself to cool
XHTML Role agenda addendum
1. extensibility and ARIA
2. expansion of predefined role (in particular, "form")
3. exact relationship between ARIA and XHTML Role (ARIA LC Comments from XHTML2)
<ShaneM> its a conspriacy
<alessio> :D
<Steven> scribe: Steven
<inserted> ScribeNick: oedipus
SP: last week TPAC 2009 -- not
very much to report -- relation to this WG, one HTML5
discussion on distributed extensibility - only discussed issues
we knew about, no action items assigned - 2 sides expanding
their positions without agreement on how to procede
... continuing stream of discussions we've been having at the
last several TPACs -- disappointed at lack of traction
GJR: there is now a HTML5 - PF HTML5 Accessibility Task Force
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/
<Tina> oedipus: noticed that. Disappointed.
SP: web content transformation
needs to be reviewed -- by me
... now Oasis member - will keep WG updated
... emessage from Doug Schepers about changes to DOM3
events
... XML Events now uses DOM2 so not particularly germane
<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Oct/0016
SP: still anyone interested
should review
... Forms WG is planning on taking XML Events 2 on board
SP: PERs - no progress
... sent email to Ralph & PLH to re-draw attention to
requests
SM: cannot finish our work before end of term of WG
SP: needs thought and discussion - will fire up email to R & PLH to say we can't meet deadlines because of delay in feedback and a stopper in the process
<Steven> Scribe: Steven
Gregory: There are 3 issues
... first the ARIA extensibility, using @role
... we need to be more specific about extensibility
... we want to point to XHTML role
Steven: We need someone to take
over role
... could you not do that?
Shane: I will do the work, but we need a WG
Gewgory: I am also working on the
access module
... for HTML5
Shane: Manu in RDFa has created a way of making modules for HTML5
Gregory: Can you send me a pointer?
Steven: Would the WAI group take role over?
Gregory: PF meets at 12
... if ARIA follows role extensibility, we would need to be
able to point to it
Steven: Either copy the content or take over the role spec
<ShaneM> Role can refer to the CURIE definition in RDFa - it is normative and already a rec
<scribe> ACTION: Gregory to ask WAI PF if they want to take on the role spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Ask WAI PF if they want to take on the role spec [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-11-18].
Gergory: This helps is with the
third point
... the last issue I have, on predefined roles, can be answered
later
... I see value in having a role module
... I want role to be a real module so that it isn't just seen
as an accessibility hook
... it can help with loads of other things
<ShaneM> I wonder if it makes sense to define role-related extensions to rdfa?
<oedipus> scribenick: oedipus
SP: have a draft - thanks to
shane for completing latest draft
... what do we as WG need to do to publish as final note,
shane?
SM: [ponders] - aside from
changing text to say "Note", also need to change Status
section
... no technical work needed for Note
SP: list of open issues - keep them or dispose of them through pass-off? change status to say work will continue elsewhere?
SM: does W3C know that
SP: told them
SM: what to put in status section
SP: if note, prefer to dispose of issues first
SM: we can do that
<ShaneM> Wouldn't publish with the issues embedded.
proposed resolution: XHTML 2 will be a Note; Status of Document to change to reflect that work will continue elsewhere
"Implementors should be aware that this specification is not stable. Implementors who are not taking part in the discussions are likely to find the specification changing out from under them in incompatible ways. Vendors interested in implementing this specification before it eventually reaches the Candidate Recommendation stage should join the aforementioned mailing lists and take part in the discussions."
RESOLUTION: XHTML2 will be a W3C Note; accordingly the Status of this Document section will be updated to reflect change
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/XHTML2/pre_obsolete
"Optimally, one would want to use a character entity code to indicate a TAB or multiple TABs, as some programming languages use TAB delineation, and the purpose of CODE and BLOCKCODE is to ENSURE that any user can copy and paste the sample of CODE, with whitespaces and explicitly declared TABs preserved."
PROPOSED 2: That the definition of CODE and BLOCKCODE be amended to indicate that whitespace, line breaks, and other "layout" compenents contained within CODE or BLOCKCODE is intended to be preserved, and that all current references to the PRE element be removed. An authoring tool could very easily translate individual spaces and other dilimeters (such as TAB) into the UTF-8 codes for a non-breaking whitespace and/or a TAB or TABs. This is also a strategy whi
SP: haven't heard what real
damage pre does that anything else would solve?
... in favor of people being able to work with XHTML2 - PRE
syntaxtic sugar, but familiar
GJR: for code and programming samples, should use CODE or BLOCKCODE
SP: taking PRE away will not cause solution to happen - nothing in replacement for PRE which will change current usage patterns
treat PRE in XHTML2 the way that blockquote for style was treated in HTML 4.01 -- deprecated for indentation purposes
SP: PRE as generic container can be ill used, but if take away people will use P with layout attribute
AC: agree
GJR: understood
SP: agree that PRE has problem
being rendered by assistive tech, but eliminating PRE won't
solve the problem GJR pointed out
... not in favor of taking out PRE
GJR: we currently have PRE, CODE, BLOCKCODE, and SAMP
SP: SAMP is inline
GJR: will port issue to further work on XHTML2 when that work is consumated
<ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to produce a note version of XHTML 2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Produce a note version of XHTML 2 [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-11-18].
SM: anyone with earthshattering changes to XHTML2 as currently defined in the draft are requested to email shane and the list before change to note
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: i/SP: last/ScribeNick: oedipus Succeeded: i/SP: PERs/topic: PERs Succeeded: s/TH/Th/ Succeeded: s/couls/could/ Succeeded: s/Woy/Wo/ Succeeded: s/TH/Th/ Found Scribe: Steven Found ScribeNick: oedipus Found Scribe: Steven Inferring ScribeNick: Steven Found ScribeNick: oedipus ScribeNicks: oedipus, Steven Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Tina, Alessio, McCarron, ShaneM Present: Gregory_Rosmaita Steven Tina Alessio McCarron ShaneM Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Nov/0000 Found Date: 11 Nov 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html People with action items: gregory shane[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]