W3C

Social Web XG Telecon

14 Oct 2009

Attendees

Present
harry, caribou, Kingsley_Idehen, bblfish, petef, rreck, mischat pchampin, DKA, mattl, hajons, Adam, cperey, oshani, tinkster, MacTed
Regrets
Chair
DKA
Scribe
adam

Contents


Convening Meeting

 

 

<trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 14 October 2009

<cperey> cperey has joined #swxg

chair: DKA

adam?

<rreck> i might have to leave to

<DKA> zakim, who is here?

Zakim, pick a scribe

<rreck> plus i suck at i t

scribe: adam

PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 7th October 2009 as a true record

dka: everybody see the w3c website, the new one

http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-mi nutes.html

<cperey> zakim +1.617.848.aaii is me

Going once, going twice...

RESOLVED:SWXG WG Weekly -- 7th October 2009 i s a true record

RESOLUTION: to meet again Wed. Oct 21st.

Yeah!

Catching up on TPAC, Action Items

dka: update with open web social day which is now the social camp

<DKA> http://barcamp.org/Soci alWebCamp-Santa-Clara

<cperey> zakim, +1.617.848.aaii is me

... going to do something thats for sure

dka: eventbrite registration has been opened up

maybe throw out the eventbrite URL so people can register!

dka: take advantage of 2nd of november hosting provided by henry (sun)

... took logo from other social web camp and re-used it and run this as a bar camp

... want to have presentation and interactive sessions around di fferent topics related to social web

... review site for text on what, whom, how etc

... have reached out to a number of people to help organize and do outreach

... the quality of this really hinges on the quality of the attendees .... no judgment here .... need to bring in smart people to make the day interactive

.... primary role i s not to be a w3c standard conversation but to have open topic discussions

.... hoping to get people from social web community, large and small

<mattl> i'm on the phone as well :)

mischat: can we put something on the wiki to help people internally that can't be there

+1

We should have a section on wiki on technologies anywhere.

.... a list of soci al networks that are using specific technologies within their systems

@mischat, like a page to let the community put the data in there themselves?

<scribe> ACTION: michat to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01]

mischat: accepted action item to create a wiki page

<scribe> ACTION: mtuffied to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action02]

<scribe> ACTION: mtuffield to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action03]

dka: i would li ke to add more linkages from the barcamp page in to our wiki so people understand background and context

<scribe> ACTION: mtiffiel to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologi es. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-98 - Put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [on Mischa Tuffield - due 2009-10-21].

.... somebody could talk people through one of the use cases on our wiki page

dka: can we get a qui ck straw poll who is planning to be there?

<DKA> +1

... for both the camp and face to face

+1

I think fabien and henry story.

i will be there for both

To go to Tuesday

Do we have an agenda?

dka: lets get an agenda for the tuesday face to face

Basically Dave Morin from Facebook and Joseph Smarr from Plaxo (editor PortableContacts)

harry: good news for face-to-face, joe smarr and ??? from facebook have agreed to be there

.... wondering what to focus the f2f on? maybe finish the use case doc and going over the final report .. brainstorming on the final report and getting feedback while facebook and plax is there to get feedback

dka: couldn't we focus the discussion on the gaps in the open social web standards

... then it could be somethign we could recommend in our report

Two mappings I think Facebook Connect/OpenSocial divide

dka: maybe an a mappi ng opportunity

And then the PortableContacts/FOAF mapping divide

harry: maybe a facebook connect and portable contacts and the mapping di vide between them

Want to recommend for future standardizati on issue.

http://portablecontacts.net/

DKA?

<mattl> tinkster: where blah is?

dka: would like to be more focused on open day but will to spend a few cycles on the f2f day

<scribe> ACTION: hhalpin to make agenda for TPAC Tuesday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-99 - Make agenda for TPAC Tuesday [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-10-21].

David Recordon (Facebook/Open Web Foundati on) plenary with Daniel Appelquist...

Kevin Marks (Google) on Developer Day Thursday.

I can e-mail them, they both can't attend.

I can tell them to forward.

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these effortsong W3C members. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action06]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditi ons, and how they change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action07]

<mattl> carry on, i'm sti ll waking up.

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] mischa to write up Peter's talk on XMPP [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action08]

<cperey> what about Use Cases? what has happened to those?

[CONTINUE] ACTION: ti nkster to write up Evan's talk on Open Microbloggi ng

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action09]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] cperey to book global lockbox as an invited speaker [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action10]

<cperey> yes

<cperey> there's interest

any day they want in particular?

Just add it on the wiki.

<cperey> but we haven't come up with a date

OK.

<cperey> Yep

<scribe> ACTION: [DONE] Harry to i nvite Ben Laurie from OAuth/Google to W3C Social Web talk [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action11]

I'm not sure ideas on how OAuth could/should/does interact with current standards?

WebApps WG?

Sounds perfect.

dka: on how oAuth could be used in the context of a widget

<hajons> hajons has joined #swxg

<scribe> ACTION: DKA to ping hhalpin names for OAuth talk from Webapps [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action12]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - Ping hhalpin names for OAuth talk from Webapps [on Dani el Appelquist - due 2009-10-21].

google side wiki : http://www.google.com/sidewi ki/intl/en/index.html

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] mtiffi el to invite BBC Persia people to talk about thei r use of social media [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action13]

I'll definitely point Ben towards that.

mischat: oauth i s usually dished out for access control so maybe point towards that group

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] petef to look into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris Messina [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action14]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] adam to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action15]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] rreck to flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple i denties and null provenance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action16]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] oshani to reframe the geolocation/intent/portability [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action17]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] bblfi sh to relabel data protection use case to be about controlled access and takedown to data "about" you [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action18]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] bblfi sh to merge Family and Group access usecases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action19]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] cari bou to flesh out Data Protection use-case specifying user vs. purpose, cite their work in PrimeLife [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action20]

<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] hhalpi n explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action21]

Higgh-level categories Christi ne?

harry: do people have any thoughts about what to be in the final report, would be good to have some discussion before tpac. due in march so should probably have an outline prior to tpac. maybe take that up next week

what should be in final report?

Next steps for standardization, or conti nue as XG or IG, or stop activity?

Any structural changes to make W3C more fri endly to the Social Web?

Sometimes XGs continue for another year, although it's rare.

dka: point on acti on, our default should not be to continue the XG ... not that i don't think its valuable, just think its more valuable if we separately go off and think about what do we do with this .... this is how i thi nk XGs are intended to work

harry: just putting some ideas out there and keep it in the background

Matt Lee Presenting on GNU Social

http://li bre.fm/

http://matt.lee.name/

http://daisycha.i n/

http://li sts.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-soci alweb/2009Oct/0027.html

harry: if roll your own social network is great from a w3c stand point need to have some example out there

mattl: founder of li bre.fm and chosen to do daisychan.in

harry: what sort of codes and other standards are you building daisychai n on and how do they interoperate with one anohter

So what pieces of software are you planni ng on using?

mattl: taking people that are not programmers and building them up on php knowledge .... looking at a forming a legal worki ng cooperative to encourage people to develop

... and then shari ng any money that would come in

.... daisychain goal is to be build a social network, could take our version or run it themselves ... can you run it on a dreamhost account, on a $5 hosting account .. reason why we're using php

... everyday get to explain why we chose php

... with li bre.fm don't support openid, want to support but last.fm doesn't support them either so we would have to figure out how to still be able to work with last.fm plugi ns

harry: what have you already chosen, or most likely will choose to i mplement

mattl: one obvious is openid, people don't like to have to register for an account, people have actually filed bugs with us and said they won't use the software due to lack of openi d

... and FOAF support ... many of the users are also identica users

... those people are hardcore users and provided a lot of bugs and feedback

... unaware of anythi ng else we should be supporting

mattl: initi ally thoughts where to sit down for 2 weeks and hammer out facebook ... but maybe just doing something very basic would be a good basis for a starting point

mischat: if you envision your type of vision, how will the need for a server play in to that

mattl: i don't see a centralized model coming about

... we want to get away from the idea of having any kind of centrali zed server

... maybe if we get a bunch of different people running their own, maybe could have people use URIs

<rreck> yes, i want to know who is talking about me

<AlexPassant> I've lost my connection but SIOC would be also interesting to i nvestigate to make content interoperable

mattl: do you want to know who is talkign about you if you don't know who they are

mischat: yeah probably

mattl: i think what will happen is, like libre.fm, is there wi ll be a service that we will operate and people will just start using that

Alex - Mattl may not be aware of SIOC

perhaps send him a link or speak?

mischat: we've been building something kind of similar ... and we index profiles if they're there and allow people to li nk up the data

<AlexPassant> mattl: you may also consider the use of SIOC - http://sioc-project.org - to expose your content(posts, etc.) in RDF and make them i nteroperable

<AlexPassant> harry: got a poor connection today, lots of disconnect :/

... without havi ng point-to-point ... we don't see how that might work without a central index

:)

Alex - there are some Zakim/bridge problems today...folks are working on this I thi nk.

mattl: if you know the email address you could import those

on #social channel.

mattl: we are in IRC in the social channel on freenode .. have weekly hacking session in the boston area

ack pchampin

... if anyone has the basicount of php knowledge to do the work, very low threshold to getting involved .. ideas etc, just joi n us in IRC or hit up on the web site

daisycha.in

pchampin: have you looked at FOAF +SSL as an authentication mechanism

mattl: not aware of that but would be happy to look in to that

pchampin: its an identification protocol with a user experi ence very similar to openid but no need for a 3rd party

http://blogs.sun.com/bblfi sh/entry/foaf_ssl_creating_a_global

mattl: thats i nteresting, that seems to be more inline with our philosophy

<AlexPassant> pchampin: foaf+ssl already works in php

http://ri seuplabs.org/crabgrass/

code-base that's been brough...

<AlexPassant> e.g. with arc2 - http://apassant.net/blog/2009/08/26/foaf-ssl-303-redi rect-and-rdfa

harry: trying to make a list of codebases that are interesting in open standards

ok, so it's a coding language disti nction

mattl: grabgrass is written on ruby on rails so it breaks one of our pri nciples of being easily available

<AlexPassant> ok pchampin - there is also a drupal module for it

http://elgg.org/

mattl: thinking is working with wordpress

IP in this area...

harry: are there any components of the social web architecture that are mi ssing? things covered by proprietary soluti ons

mattl: need to make the whole experience of creating your own social network much easier

... maybe a package to download and install

... this is hi s own project not associated with the FSF

... libre.fm is the brand name i apply to my website ... the software i s called Gnu.fm and Gnu.social

http://www.gnu.org/phi losophy/w3c-patent.html

W3C provide basics to get a social network up and running.

mattl: to me it would be great if you could go to the social xg page and get some working code thats easy to run etc

dka: trying to get the idea that the social web is a platform that appli cations can be on top of

mattl: i don't want to see a social web where i have to install propri etary software like flash

... we use a li cense ???? to help that

.... to prevent dai sychain and librefm from becoming these silos

AGPL license

copyright, trademarks, patents.

Always, eolas!

mattl: have appli cation for the android phone

... a lot of possi bility and want to make sure we keep focused on the free software direction

<DKA> just downloaded li bre droid :)

Ted is a Cambridge...

harry: w3c is talki ng about deploying their own features to help out wi th the w3c process

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/14/1219215/Ti m-Berners-Lee-Is-Sorry-About-the-Slashes

http://blip.tv/fi le/2707910

mattl: i don't thi nk the social web should be different then the web, the web is naturally social

harry: shall we end the call

<rreck> thanks

Any one want to write this up?

harry: who wants to write this up?

going once...

<mattl> okay, i'm out :)

going twice...

i could sure try

<mattl> i

<scribe> ACTION: Adam to write up Matt Lee's talk [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action22]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Write up Matt Lee's talk [on Adam Boyet - due 2009-10-21].

thanks mischat, i'd appreciate that

Meeting adjourned

<mischat> cool

<mattl> please join #social on irc.freenode.net :) or see http://daisycha.in

<DKA> thanks - very cool to hear about daisycha.in

mattl - my coding time frees up in Dec, will join in then

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Adam to write up Matt Lee's talk [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action22]
[NEW] ACTION: DKA to ping hhalpin names for OAuth talk from Webapps [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: hhalpin to make agenda for TPAC Tuesday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: mtuffied to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action02]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: adam to wri te up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action15]
[PENDING] ACTION: bblfish to merge Family and Group access usecases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action19]
[PENDING] ACTION: bblfish to relabel data protection use case to be about controlled access and takedown to data "about" you [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action18]
[PENDING] ACTION: caribou to flesh out Data Protection use-case specifying user vs. purpose, cite their work in PrimeLife [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action20]
[PENDING] ACTION: cperey to book global lockbox as an invited speaker [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these effortsong W3C members. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: hhalpin explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action21]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: mischa to write up Peter's talk on XMPP [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: mtiffi el to invite BBC Persia people to talk about their use of social media [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action13]
[PENDING] ACTION: oshani to reframe the geolocation/intent/portability [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action17]
[PENDING] ACTION: petef to look into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris Messi na [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action14]
[PENDING] ACTION: rreck to flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple i denties and null provenance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action16]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Harry to invite Ben Laurie from OAuth/Google to W3C Social Web talk [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action11]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2009/10/19 13:39:12 $