<trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 14 October 2009
<cperey> cperey has joined #swxg
<rreck> i might have to leave to
<DKA> zakim, who is here?
Zakim, pick a scribe
<rreck> plus i suck at i t
PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 7th October 2009 as a true record
dka: everybody see the w3c website, the new one
<cperey> zakim +1.617.848.aaii is me
Going once, going twice...
RESOLVED:SWXG WG Weekly -- 7th October 2009 i s a true record
RESOLUTION: to meet again Wed. Oct 21st.
dka: update with open web social day which is now the social camp
<DKA> http://barcamp.org/Soci alWebCamp-Santa-Clara
<cperey> zakim, +1.617.848.aaii is me
... going to do something thats for sure
dka: eventbrite registration has been opened up
maybe throw out the eventbrite URL so people can register!
dka: take advantage of 2nd of november hosting provided by henry (sun)
... took logo from other social web camp and re-used it and run this as a bar camp
... want to have presentation and interactive sessions around di fferent topics related to social web
... review site for text on what, whom, how etc
... have reached out to a number of people to help organize and do outreach
... the quality of this really hinges on the quality of the attendees .... no judgment here .... need to bring in smart people to make the day interactive
.... primary role i s not to be a w3c standard conversation but to have open topic discussions
.... hoping to get people from social web community, large and small
<mattl> i'm on the phone as well :)
mischat: can we put something on the wiki to help people internally that can't be there
We should have a section on wiki on technologies anywhere.
.... a list of soci al networks that are using specific technologies within their systems
@mischat, like a page to let the community put the data in there themselves?
<scribe> ACTION: michat to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01]
mischat: accepted action item to create a wiki page
<scribe> ACTION: mtuffied to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action02]
<scribe> ACTION: mtuffield to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action03]
dka: i would li ke to add more linkages from the barcamp page in to our wiki so people understand background and context
<scribe> ACTION: mtiffiel to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologi es. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-98 - Put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [on Mischa Tuffield - due 2009-10-21].
.... somebody could talk people through one of the use cases on our wiki page
dka: can we get a qui ck straw poll who is planning to be there?
... for both the camp and face to face
I think fabien and henry story.
i will be there for both
To go to Tuesday
Do we have an agenda?
dka: lets get an agenda for the tuesday face to face
Basically Dave Morin from Facebook and Joseph Smarr from Plaxo (editor PortableContacts)
harry: good news for face-to-face, joe smarr and ??? from facebook have agreed to be there
.... wondering what to focus the f2f on? maybe finish the use case doc and going over the final report .. brainstorming on the final report and getting feedback while facebook and plax is there to get feedback
dka: couldn't we focus the discussion on the gaps in the open social web standards
... then it could be somethign we could recommend in our report
Two mappings I think Facebook Connect/OpenSocial divide
dka: maybe an a mappi ng opportunity
And then the PortableContacts/FOAF mapping divide
harry: maybe a facebook connect and portable contacts and the mapping di vide between them
Want to recommend for future standardizati on issue.
<mattl> tinkster: where blah is?
dka: would like to be more focused on open day but will to spend a few cycles on the f2f day
<scribe> ACTION: hhalpin to make agenda for TPAC Tuesday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-99 - Make agenda for TPAC Tuesday [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-10-21].
David Recordon (Facebook/Open Web Foundati on) plenary with Daniel Appelquist...
Kevin Marks (Google) on Developer Day Thursday.
I can e-mail them, they both can't attend.
I can tell them to forward.
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these effortsong W3C members. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action06]
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditi ons, and how they change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action07]
<mattl> carry on, i'm sti ll waking up.
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] mischa to write up Peter's talk on XMPP [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action08]
<cperey> what about Use Cases? what has happened to those?
[CONTINUE] ACTION: ti nkster to write up Evan's talk on Open Microbloggi ng
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action09]
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] cperey to book global lockbox as an invited speaker [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action10]
<cperey> there's interest
any day they want in particular?
Just add it on the wiki.
<cperey> but we haven't come up with a date
<scribe> ACTION: [DONE] Harry to i nvite Ben Laurie from OAuth/Google to W3C Social Web talk [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action11]
I'm not sure ideas on how OAuth could/should/does interact with current standards?
dka: on how oAuth could be used in the context of a widget
<hajons> hajons has joined #swxg
<scribe> ACTION: DKA to ping hhalpin names for OAuth talk from Webapps [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action12]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - Ping hhalpin names for OAuth talk from Webapps [on Dani el Appelquist - due 2009-10-21].
google side wiki : http://www.google.com/sidewi ki/intl/en/index.html
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] mtiffi el to invite BBC Persia people to talk about thei r use of social media [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action13]
I'll definitely point Ben towards that.
mischat: oauth i s usually dished out for access control so maybe point towards that group
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] petef to look into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris Messina [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action14]
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] adam to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action15]
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] rreck to flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple i denties and null provenance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action16]
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] oshani to reframe the geolocation/intent/portability [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action17]
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] bblfi sh to relabel data protection use case to be about controlled access and takedown to data "about" you [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action18]
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] bblfi sh to merge Family and Group access usecases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action19]
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] cari bou to flesh out Data Protection use-case specifying user vs. purpose, cite their work in PrimeLife [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action20]
<scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] hhalpi n explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action21]
Higgh-level categories Christi ne?
harry: do people have any thoughts about what to be in the final report, would be good to have some discussion before tpac. due in march so should probably have an outline prior to tpac. maybe take that up next week
what should be in final report?
Next steps for standardization, or conti nue as XG or IG, or stop activity?
Any structural changes to make W3C more fri endly to the Social Web?
Sometimes XGs continue for another year, although it's rare.
dka: point on acti on, our default should not be to continue the XG ... not that i don't think its valuable, just think its more valuable if we separately go off and think about what do we do with this .... this is how i thi nk XGs are intended to work
harry: just putting some ideas out there and keep it in the background
http://li sts.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-soci alweb/2009Oct/0027.html
harry: if roll your own social network is great from a w3c stand point need to have some example out there
mattl: founder of li bre.fm and chosen to do daisychan.in
harry: what sort of codes and other standards are you building daisychai n on and how do they interoperate with one anohter
So what pieces of software are you planni ng on using?
mattl: taking people that are not programmers and building them up on php knowledge .... looking at a forming a legal worki ng cooperative to encourage people to develop
... and then shari ng any money that would come in
.... daisychain goal is to be build a social network, could take our version or run it themselves ... can you run it on a dreamhost account, on a $5 hosting account .. reason why we're using php
... everyday get to explain why we chose php
... with li bre.fm don't support openid, want to support but last.fm doesn't support them either so we would have to figure out how to still be able to work with last.fm plugi ns
harry: what have you already chosen, or most likely will choose to i mplement
mattl: one obvious is openid, people don't like to have to register for an account, people have actually filed bugs with us and said they won't use the software due to lack of openi d
... and FOAF support ... many of the users are also identica users
... those people are hardcore users and provided a lot of bugs and feedback
... unaware of anythi ng else we should be supporting
mattl: initi ally thoughts where to sit down for 2 weeks and hammer out facebook ... but maybe just doing something very basic would be a good basis for a starting point
mischat: if you envision your type of vision, how will the need for a server play in to that
mattl: i don't see a centralized model coming about
... we want to get away from the idea of having any kind of centrali zed server
... maybe if we get a bunch of different people running their own, maybe could have people use URIs
<rreck> yes, i want to know who is talking about me
<AlexPassant> I've lost my connection but SIOC would be also interesting to i nvestigate to make content interoperable
mattl: do you want to know who is talkign about you if you don't know who they are
mischat: yeah probably
mattl: i think what will happen is, like libre.fm, is there wi ll be a service that we will operate and people will just start using that
Alex - Mattl may not be aware of SIOC
perhaps send him a link or speak?
mischat: we've been building something kind of similar ... and we index profiles if they're there and allow people to li nk up the data
<AlexPassant> mattl: you may also consider the use of SIOC - http://sioc-project.org - to expose your content(posts, etc.) in RDF and make them i nteroperable
<AlexPassant> harry: got a poor connection today, lots of disconnect :/
... without havi ng point-to-point ... we don't see how that might work without a central index
Alex - there are some Zakim/bridge problems today...folks are working on this I thi nk.
mattl: if you know the email address you could import those
on #social channel.
mattl: we are in IRC in the social channel on freenode .. have weekly hacking session in the boston area
... if anyone has the basicount of php knowledge to do the work, very low threshold to getting involved .. ideas etc, just joi n us in IRC or hit up on the web site
pchampin: have you looked at FOAF +SSL as an authentication mechanism
mattl: not aware of that but would be happy to look in to that
pchampin: its an identification protocol with a user experi ence very similar to openid but no need for a 3rd party
mattl: thats i nteresting, that seems to be more inline with our philosophy
<AlexPassant> pchampin: foaf+ssl already works in php
code-base that's been brough...
<AlexPassant> e.g. with arc2 - http://apassant.net/blog/2009/08/26/foaf-ssl-303-redi rect-and-rdfa
harry: trying to make a list of codebases that are interesting in open standards
ok, so it's a coding language disti nction
mattl: grabgrass is written on ruby on rails so it breaks one of our pri nciples of being easily available
<AlexPassant> ok pchampin - there is also a drupal module for it
mattl: thinking is working with wordpress
IP in this area...
harry: are there any components of the social web architecture that are mi ssing? things covered by proprietary soluti ons
mattl: need to make the whole experience of creating your own social network much easier
... maybe a package to download and install
... this is hi s own project not associated with the FSF
... libre.fm is the brand name i apply to my website ... the software i s called Gnu.fm and Gnu.social
W3C provide basics to get a social network up and running.
mattl: to me it would be great if you could go to the social xg page and get some working code thats easy to run etc
dka: trying to get the idea that the social web is a platform that appli cations can be on top of
mattl: i don't want to see a social web where i have to install propri etary software like flash
... we use a li cense ???? to help that
.... to prevent dai sychain and librefm from becoming these silos
copyright, trademarks, patents.
mattl: have appli cation for the android phone
... a lot of possi bility and want to make sure we keep focused on the free software direction
<DKA> just downloaded li bre droid :)
Ted is a Cambridge...
harry: w3c is talki ng about deploying their own features to help out wi th the w3c process
mattl: i don't thi nk the social web should be different then the web, the web is naturally social
harry: shall we end the call
Any one want to write this up?
harry: who wants to write this up?
<mattl> okay, i'm out :)
i could sure try
<scribe> ACTION: Adam to write up Matt Lee's talk [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-minutes.html#action22]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Write up Matt Lee's talk [on Adam Boyet - due 2009-10-21].
thanks mischat, i'd appreciate that
<mattl> please join #social on irc.freenode.net :) or see http://daisycha.in
<DKA> thanks - very cool to hear about daisycha.in
mattl - my coding time frees up in Dec, will join in then
trackbot, end meeting