See also: IRC log
agenda
meeting SSNXG 09-Sep-2009
<kgann> +1-410-218-3315
<kgann> I heard noisy too!
akim, whi is noisy?
<krzysztof_j> hi
<kgann> no sound for me either
<kgann> sorry - my cell phone singal is fading...
can you hear me as chair?
<victor> hi all
can you hear me?
<Arthur> i can hear you
<krp> Hi Kerry, just on, yes I can hear you
<krzysztof_j> yes
<krzysztof_j> but very bad :(
<kgann> i'm back now...
<krp> A bit muffled, but not too terrible
ok - 'ill use the irc a lot
please look at it!
<kgann> ok
please keep eye on irc as voice quality is poor
<kgann> my cell phone singal is very weak, I'll stay on irc from now on...
roll call?
: australia
+kerry
west coast us
east coast us
+britain?
europe
is that it?
echo..
who is talking?
<krp> Yes, that's better
sarting.
<kgann> It's good now...
comment on f2f anyone?
no response?
<krp> Agenda looks better now, the more time for thrashing through details on ontology etc. the better!
<kgann> i switch to my company's phone 301-497-2800
11 submissions
<krzysztof_j> great!
<kgann> yeah!
we decided to aceept everything ue the range
some papers will be very short for pesentation
early reg finshes this week
aqny questions?
<ocorcho> +2
<ocorcho> +q
agenda not confimed
time is very short
little space only
<kgann> any registration fees for ssn09?
one option would be to have no keynote?
more discussion time
<kgann> how to register?
<ocorcho> 180$ if I am not wrong
<ocorcho> iswc2009.semanticweb.org
<kgann> thanks!
<ocorcho> I would prefer no keynote
<kgann> me too!
<ocorcho> but more discussion
<krzysztof_j> same for me
<krzysztof_j> ack
ok -- i 'll raise with the other chairs
thankyou those whu submitted
tahnk you to reviewers, and kevin
qustions?
3or 4 critical cases today
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Favorite_Use_Cases_List
look at that: quite along list of ideas
have been asked to vote
lots of ideas at the bottom should be at the top
<Danh_DERI> I can't not dial in, it said Conference code is not valid
<Danh_DERI> I can't not dial in, it said Conference code is not valid
danh -- perhaps we are 15 already?
i am trying hard to get it all on irc anyway
<Danh_DERI> I suppose so
<Danh_DERI> I suppose so
volunteer to lead discussion on use cases?
is ther anyone with an interst who has not yet voted?
<ocorcho> I have not voted
<ocorcho> just arrived after a long time
<kgann> I haven't
<ocorcho> on holidays
<krp> Not voted yet either
<krzysztof_j> same for me (was on holidays)
<mcompton> me too
<ocorcho> probably I will go mostly for device discovery and data discovery use cases
<kelsey> what is the distinction between " Use Cases Receiving Votes" and " Candidate Use Cases"? ...both have votes.
dave, some of us didn't follow instructions
<rgarcia> No idea
things from the bottom are moved to the top with the first vote.
<krp> Ah, so everything should be up top, since each has a vote
<victor> I suppose, fml stand for first, middle, last
<victor> so fml is not a vote
<krp> Good point Victor!
<mcompton> I think you're right victor
<rgarcia> :)
<krp> Ooops.
vurge you to vote!
urge to vote!
<krp> So these are our "most" important use cases against which we'll validate the ontologies...
<krzysztof_j> maybe we could use a doodle to vote for the use cases (would be easier)
yes
<krp> ... because we don't expect to have the resource to work up enough coverage in use cases to derive requirements from
actually i prefer this -- its very visible who and what
<rgarcia> The wiki is more informative
<krp> (in a moment, I'll just shift to a quiet room!)
kevin -- can you talk?
questions?
select 3 or 4 to validate ontology against
comment?
<mcompton> +q
<ocorcho> -q
<krp> Right, it's a chain that pulls in most of the other MMI use cases
<victor> I agree, use case 1 is a general use case
compton: the first use cases covers most of te others
<ocorcho> no
<krp> But will breaking it down - and then presumably selecting just a few of the constituent parts - be as useful?
<krp> I mean, we're not saying we don't want it to do the full set :)
i suggest votes who choose use case 1 , also look further and choose more
<mcompton> +q
did anyone hear michael?
<krp> Not well enough
<mcompton> sorry ... seemed to echo
oscar - pls mute !
<mcompton> I'll type
<victor> Ya lot of eco
<krp> Oscar, I think zakim unmuted you
<mcompton> Find a device outputing a certain type could be more general - find a device making the measurement we want, and if the output isn't the right type then compose with a function that transforms the type to what we want
<mcompton> or in another way alters/composes etc
<mcompton> when we say find ... do we really mean find and compose, or find and process to make what we want
<mcompton> ...this is more how, say, web services would view such a process
<rgarcia> I think that it is more the business logic of some function/service than the model of the ontology
<mcompton> not arguing that it's the ontolgy, it's part of the use case though
<mcompton> ...though in a second I'll argue that it's part of the ontly
<mcompton> (sorry ontology)
while i am very fond of the idea -- i don't think we should burden the ontology with it
<rgarcia> Yes, that is a use case
<rgarcia> +q
could you pls summarise on irc -- sound still not great?
<rgarcia> Do we have virtual sensors in the current us cases?
<rgarcia> Do we need them?
<rgarcia> +1
<kelsey> +1
add them mike ( I would add them as separate to avoid confusion)
<krp> +1 yes, seems sensible
+1
<victor> +1
<mcompton> ok, I'll update the page
<rgarcia> +q
3 kinds of use cases?
<krp> +q
is the voting adequate for this?
<krp> I think the voting is adequate, but the use cases are quite mixed
<kgann> yes
<krp> some are quite detailed, and map to a relatively small bit of sensor functionality
<krp> while other (the non-MMI ones?) are a bit higher level and, uh, motivational?
<kelsey> agree w/ Kevin, would be nice if 1. a single person would manage/vet the list (e.g. at the same level of fidelity); 2. we set a deadline for the voting to complete
<krp> the higher level ones won't be as useful for validation, because their scope goes beyond the device ontology
i can hear you well!
<kgann> ditto
+q
suggest deadline in 2 wekks prior to meeting.
<kelsey> +1
<ocorcho> +1
<mcompton> +1
volunteer to tidy list
and accept sinput from other via the public email?
<scribe> ACTION: vote before next meeting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-ssn-minutes.html#action01]
no volunteer?
<Arthur> I can do it
<scribe> ACTION: arthur to tidy list and ensure internal consistency [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-ssn-minutes.html#action02]
others: send email to publis list for Artur to action
<krp> Hmmm, I think the issue is that the higher level use cases might need breaking down (if we want to achieve the same level of fidelity), and that's probably a bunch more work
<kelsey> should hold off voting until the list is "finished"? ...perhaps that can be indicated either on the wiki (ref. http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Favorite_Use_Cases_List) or in the mailing list or both?
<krp> I'll try and pen something to the list.
stop voting to complete ths list first?
<krp> We could always have a second round vote/re-vote once the list is complete?
<mcompton> votes might drive some of the discussion
<kgann> good idea!
yes
<scribe> ACTION: keep voting -- we'll do another vote after the list is final [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-ssn-minutes.html#action03]
commnets on use cases?
<krp> Final list for next telecon then?
<krp> Then second round vote?
<kelsey> +1
<scribe> ACTION: final use case list decision next meeting; then vote again [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-ssn-minutes.html#action04]
any more comments?
<scribe> topic : aob
<scribe> topic : next week
no meeting next week -- back at this time foillowing week
close the meeting
<victor> bye
<ocorcho> bye
<Rodrigo> bye
<mcompton> bye
<kgann> bye!
<rgarcia> bye
<krzysztof_j> bye
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: kerry Inferring Scribes: kerry Default Present: +1.206.662.aaaa, +1.410.218.aabb, +1.410.218.aacc, +200000aadd, rgarcia, kerry, Arthur, +1.937.775.aaff, +1.410.218.aagg, victor, krp, mcompton, +1.410.218.aahh, ocorcho, Rodrigo, +1.301.497.aakk Present: +1.206.662.aaaa +1.410.218.aabb +1.410.218.aacc +200000aadd rgarcia kerry Arthur +1.937.775.aaff +1.410.218.aagg victor krp mcompton +1.410.218.aahh ocorcho Rodrigo +1.301.497.aakk Got date from IRC log name: 09 Sep 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-ssn-minutes.html People with action items: arthur final keep vote WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]