See also: IRC log
<SteveH> I think my action was time mermitting, but maybe that wasn't captured
<AndyS> It's FPWD - agreeing to publish is not a universal agreement with the doc.
Hi all, I am scribing today for the first time... Do i have to do something special to get the chat log published afterwards?
<SteveH> oh, I may be able to attend after all, but will be a bit late
<kasei> yes, can hear you
<AxelPolleres> scribenick: bglimm
<AxelPolleres> scribe: Birte Glimm
AxelPolleres: Many people are at SemTec and cannot attend today
<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-06-16
AxelPolleres: let's approve the minutes from last time
<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-09
AxelPolleres: any objections? or
additions?
... nothing, so the minutes are approved
Alex: I am listed, but I wasn't there
<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes with Alex being removed from the attendees list.
<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel Eric to update minutes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-41 - Eric to update minutes [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-23].
AxelPolleres: Can we approve it with the amendments?
<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes with Alex being removed from the attendees list.
<AlexPassant> regrets for 2009-06-09 are there actually: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-02
AxelPolleres: next meeting is in
one week, 23rd June same time
... scribe for next week: KjetilK
<SimonS> Regrets for next week. I will be travelling, maybe I can join on IRC
AxelPolleres: Bijan is not here,
so no news from OWL and no news from RIF
... no news from liasons today
AxelPolleres: we some open
actions: 16 on LeeF continious
... action 17 on Steve
Steve: I think that is obsolete now
AxelPolleres: Action 19 on Ivan is open
Orri: What is that action?
<AndyS> """Send to the mailing list a few example cases (data, query, results) of SELECT queries in FILTERs"""
AxelPolleres: We have to look
that up in the minutes
... Action 28 is continued and action 32 on Simon is open
Simon: Action 32 should be completed
AxelPolleres: Action 36 is
completed
... Action 37 is completed
<kasei> action-38 can be closed, and is on the agenda for later
AxelPolleres: Action 38 on Greg
is completed and can be closed
... we have 2 open actions to review the F&R docs
... we leave this open for now
... action review is done
kjetilK: We just 2 things
open
... the short name and the introduction
... we have the project description
... SteveH couldn't finish his review
... whether Chime has reviewed is not known
AxelPolleres: Lets look at the
open issues for this
... short name first
<AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0383.html
<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/
AxelPolleres: proposal was to use
the name SPARQL Features
... but this has no version number
... any opinions?
AndyS: Can we ask the team contact and ask what is the standard
AxelPolleres: They are not here at the moment
<AndyS> e.g. TR/xpath-datamodel/ -- no version number (and it's xpath 2.0)
AxelPolleres: I can ask the team contact
<AndyS> but /TR/xmlschema-2/
<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to ask team contacts whether http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/ is ok [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-42 - Ask team contacts whether http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/ is ok [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-23].
<KjetilK> +1
AxelPolleres: Can I propose to go
with that name unless there is some objection from the team
contact?
... do we need a backup solution
... ?
<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: F&R will be published under http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/ unless there are concerns from the team-contacts.
<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: F&R will be published under http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql-features/ unless there are concerns from the team-contacts.
AxelPolleres: Lets ressolve this
and see
... My concern is that the previous versions said RDF SPARQL
and not just SPARQL
<SteveH> lets delagate
<KjetilK> +1
AxelPolleres: I think we can go with that for now
AndyS: your resolution says that the doc will be published like that, so that might cause a problem
<AndyS> NB we have not decided to publish yet
AxelPolleres: So should I change the resolution?
<AxelPolleres> PROPOSE: in case of concerns, leave the naming decision to team contacts.
AxelPolleres: is it ok to leave
it to the team contact for the naming issues?
... any objections?
<AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: in case of concerns, leave the naming decision to team contacts.
AxelPolleres: So, there are none and I suggest to resolve this
AxelPolleres: Did you incorporate what was on the wiki?
KjetilK: I havn't, but there was nothing substantial
<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Features_Introduction_strawman
AxelPolleres: I looked ob=ver it.
It is not a substantial change. It is mostly to reorder some
parts
... also there are links to the resolutions and I was hoping
that this fulfils Andy's concern about the timestamp
feature
... Would such a reordering be ok?
... if there are no objections, I propose to change it like
that.
AlexPassant: I would like to keep 1.1 and the structure of the documents
<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Alex to adopt http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Features_Introduction_strawman with two subsections. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Adopt http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Features_Introduction_strawman with two subsections. [on Alexandre Passant - due 2009-06-23].
AxelPolleres: I will give you an
action to adapt the document
... any more objections?
... none, so lets do that.
... next, examples
<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ProjectExpressions
KjetilK: I took text from the wiki and put it in the document
<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/#Project_expressions
AxelPolleres: Let's have a look
<KjetilK> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/#Project_expressions_syntax
AxelPolleres: should the
construct with expressions be left in, for the moment it
was
... it should be clear that this is not the complex
expressions
... Did you include the implementations list?
kjetilK: I havn't included
that
... it seems that the doc is not self-contained with many
links
AxelPolleres: So you don't have any?
<AndyS> Checking F&O: fn:concat --> fn:string-join
<AxelPolleres> (simon was asking)
<AndyS> fn:concat implies a cast, string-join does not
AxelPolleres: There are some implementations listed, so should we unify that?
<KjetilK> AndyS: fixed :-)
<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/#Negation
AxelPolleres: there are some
concerns about an example in the negations subsection
... any opinions?
... Kjetil have you seen that email
<SteveH> It needs a 2nd example
kjetilK: I saw it and thought about it a bit
AxelPolleres: what we need is an approval of Andy because he raised the concerns?
AndyS: Which change?
<kasei> small typo in 2.3.3: "does not no anyone" shoudl be "does not know anyone"
AxelPolleres: In the negation section.
AndyS: The wording says syntax, but we actually make deeper changes
<kasei> I think it is strange to show an example from SeRQL for negation when there are existing SPARQL approaches...
<AndyS> agree with kasei
<AndyS> Use his impl as example.
<AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0379.html
<SimonS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0379.html
AxelPolleres: I just pasted the relevant mail
<kasei> +1 to the rewording
AndyS: I think the new wording is better
AxelPolleres: Is the rewording for the second part fine too?
<KjetilK> yes
<AlexPassant> +1
AxelPolleres: There is a second
part to this
... there was a concern that only the minor system is
mentioned
... I am not sure which systems implement UNSAID? I think only
ARQ.
<KjetilK> committed :-)
<kasei> I support UNSAID
<AxelPolleres> Orri: NOT EXISTS for SQL
AxelPolleres: we would need to rewrite it as NOT EXISTS in SQL syntax
AndyS: Are there any examples in the wiki pages?
<SimonS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:Negation
AxelPolleres: I would like to see an example like the other one, expression the same thing as the other one
<AlexPassant> Zakim: ack me
<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Orri to mail NOT EXISTS example. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Mail NOT EXISTS example. [on Orri Erling - due 2009-06-23].
Orri: I can mail an example
<kasei> the UNSAID example in the referenced email will work in RDF::Query as-is.
<AlexPassant> I was not actuall
AxelPolleres: Orri will mal an example
Orri: I can do that now.
AxelPolleres: kjetil or Alex can you adopt that in the document?
<AxelPolleres> ACTION: adopt NOT EXISTS running example in F&R [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - adopt
AxelPolleres: where is Kasei's example?
Kasei: It's in the mail and in other places
<AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0379.html
<AxelPolleres> Kasei: UNSAID works with Kasei's implementation
<AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:Negation#Example
<AndyS> first example
<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Kjetil to adopt one more additional syntaxe UNSAID or NOT EXISTS for negation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Adopt one more additional syntaxe UNSAID or NOT EXISTS for negation [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2009-06-23].
AxelPolleres: Until when can this be done?
kjetilK: I think immediately
AxelPolleres: If we have all
these actions done, we need approval by two more people.
... We can still propose to publish, given that these reviews
are positive given that it is a draft
... So I need two reviewers
... Steve, when could you look over the documents?
SteveH: early next week
<kasei> (very loud typing noises... bglimm, is that you?)
AxelPolleres: Could anybody do that earlier.
Simon: I can also do that early next week
<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Simon to review F&R [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Review F&R [on Simon Schenk - due 2009-06-23].
AxelPolleres: Kjetil can you incorporate the changes today after the meeting?
kjetikK: yes
AxelPolleres: So next week we can
decide whether we can publish or not
... is there anything more on F&R
<AxelPolleres> Postpone decision to next telecon (hopefully really ONLY the decision)
<AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to ask team contact to approve patent text (currently commented in the document). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Ask team contact to approve patent text (currently commented in the document). [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-06-23].
AxelPolleres: nothing else? No,
so lets move on.
... to Service Descriptions
<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ServiceDescriptions
AxelPolleres: last week two
actions were completed on this
... Greg, can you tell us what you did?
<AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/38
Greg: I have posted a list on the wiki
<AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0380.html
Greg: with things I suggest should be standardised
<Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about SPARQL/1.0 (minor)
AndyS: we need to put the version number of the SPARQL features in
AxelPolleres: Can we have an assumption that SPARQL 1.0 is the default
<SimonS> Sounds like a chicken and egg problem: Need SPARQL/1.1 to say I am a SPARQL/1.0 endpoint
<SteveH> +1 to no defaulting
AndyS: I don't think. If the system does not say anything, then it is not supporting any particular version
<AxelPolleres> seems agreement that no default behavior should be assumed/defined.
AndyS: Greg, do you have an example for the connection RI?
<AndyS> +1 to naming all built-ins with URIs.
Greg: for new features, such as
aggregate functions, it makes sense to give them new
URI's
... at the moment we don't have URIs for all features
... I think there was support for using URIs instead of
keywords
AxelPolleres: should we have URIs for libraries or URIs for all features?
<AndyS> and that they should work as a function call. Except BOUND, || and && which are not strict functions (they are technically special forms)
Greg: That might depend on the decision of whether or not we will have function libraries
<AndyS> Axel: do we want also to name libraries?
<AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0380.html
AxelPolleres: We are running out
of time, so we might have to contibnue this discussion on
mail.
... I have to talk to Lee on how we proceed now and where we
continue
... whether we should focus on the features or whether we
should flesh out the time allowed features in the F&R
document
... Any other things for the agenda?
... No, so see you next week.
<AxelPolleres> Adjourn.
<AxelPolleres> Thanks all!
<bijan> Axel, Is lee going to do the clean up of the minutes?
<AxelPolleres> bijan, I need to check with him
Let me know if i have to do anything on the minutes
<AxelPolleres> The minutes magic was done by eric/lee so far.
<bijan> Yes
<bijan> Lee
<bijan> Not me
At the moment, I get insufficient access privileges if I try to access the minutes
<bijan> Definitely not me
<AxelPolleres> yeah, I got the same problem with the rrsagent last week already.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/attent/attend/ Succeeded: s/Ivan/Orri/ Succeeded: s/Somin/Simon/ Succeeded: s/Any's/Andy's/ Succeeded: s/ARC/ARQ/ Succeeded: s/not/would/ Succeeded: s/Ori/Orri/ Succeeded: s/bijan/lee/ Found ScribeNick: bglimm Found Scribe: Birte Glimm Default Present: +049261287aaaa, +1.518.276.aabb, kasei, +3539149aacc, AxelPolleres, bglimm, AlexPassant, +49.261.287.aadd, SimonS1, SteveH, AndyS, KjetilK, [IPcaller], bijan Present: +049261287aaaa +1.518.276.aabb kasei +3539149aacc AxelPolleres bglimm AlexPassant +49.261.287.aadd SimonS1 SteveH AndyS KjetilK [IPcaller] bijan WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 16 Jun 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/06/16-sparql-minutes.html People with action items: adopt alex axel eric kjetil orri simon[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]