See also: IRC log
were you able to obtain the opera XHTML+Voice plugin?
<wiecha> was reading about it this morning, yes
<scribe> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
<scribe> ScribeNick: oedipus
CW: Steven will be joining when meeting currently in finished; hoped to have jack here for discussion
SP: going to ping jack to see if can join
CW: have to leave 5 minutes early
for reference: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009Mar/0004.html
for reference: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009Mar/att-0004/scenario.html
CW: Steven we need to discuss logistics for upcoming meetings
SP: no info about format of panel - don't exactly know plans
CW: having a dedicated mike gives you an advantage!
SP: DAISY paying for travel expenses; a lot of ground to cover; DAISY become very involved in push to new XHTML2 draft
CW: if want to speak with john and me, can set it up
SP: don't anticipate any problems -- want to foster question and answers
CW: as chair, need to present
view of XG - that's why what we've been discussing lately
... AC meeting next week - monday future of the web
(Xtechnologies versus HTML)
... mixing and matching technologies into Rich Web App
programming model
... details of prototype - SMIL, XForms, SVG, ODF - ubiquity
platform way to get to clients
JJ: trust CW and SP to represent views on the matter
Uli: 2 key points - web is not defined by browser; distributed extensibility - clumsy in HTML, get for free in XHTML/XML core with namespaces -- basis for mixing dialects; HTML with special SVG and MathML handling not practical solution
CW: RDFa clean example of extensibility
GJR: ARIA, too - HTML WG wants to swallow and hard-wire ARIA or sub-set of ARIA - not good, needs to be namespace reference so PF/WAI can keep ARIA updated - ARIA 2 wish list already very large
SP: attributes don't get removed from DOM; not sure about elements
CW: using ubiquity using a lot of elements
SP: messy extension mechanism -
basis of browser wars: proprietary elements and
interpretations
... ended up with tag soup and tag synonomic syndrome
CW: Sam Ruby's response good; distributed accessibility as Uli described
<jackjansen> synonomic???
CW: new implementations?
JJ: been very busy with tool application paper and thesis
CW: been implementing rich text control in ubiquity - allows inline editor to use markup to be captured in data section of XForms - best for boilerplate forms use
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009Mar/att-0004/scenario.html
cover emessage: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009Mar/0004.html
CW: proposed list of features we could explore in the
financial planning Backplane applicatio
CW: UI aspects need to be
discussed
... continue to be excited about rich set of visualizations,
wiring techs together, SMIL and/or SCXML
... were do we want to jump in and start work
CW: mark birbeck keen on SVG for
browser controls; been checking support for SVG - support in
Safari, WebKit, and FF
... have earlier demos from emerging technologies group wired
into U.S. tax form - have some javascript can steal from there
to construct SVG element as result of data mining mode set -
bind to data model and extract node sets from repeat, pass on
to SVG generator (ubiquity custom control) to produce pie chart
for data model
GJR: it would be a very good test
of SVG interacting with ARIA and the XHTML Access Module
... ARIA to augment DESC and TITLE in SVG and Access Module to
provide tab navigation
JJ: buzzwords for SMIL in ARIA -
http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/SVG
JJ: returning to question:
scenario document - would like to take step back - if do this
demo, what are the reasons we are doing it?
... a lot on integration side, but miss why doing in web app
and not in C++ as stand-alone app
... in "requirements" there are some that apply to networks -
should perhaps have section on why do with web app instead of
stand-alone app
CW: what are the backplane
technologies is included
... illustrate patterns; nothing in scenario on network access
per se
... could say all web technology good for apps
GJR: foundation of standardization, ease of use, consistency
JJ: platform independence in the web space - gives one access to tremendous resources; should spell out
CW: should do where discuss data feeds
JJ: at top say "joining a financial circle" - some social networking involved
CW: OpenSocial discussions
<Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say working on ARIA and XHTML Role enabled OpenSocial implementation (virtual visually impaired computer users group)
GJR: describes OpenSocail VICUG initiative
CW: built xforms front end for
shindig - simple back end to shindig - model relationships -
use jump start for configuration of the app
... this could be filled in later
GJR: if you build something from the inside out, you'll have no difficulty penetrating from the outside in
CW: SVG navigation through pie chart - not accessible example
GJR: 2 points: 1 is the SVG
itself should be WCAG compliant, without question because it
helps general usability as well as accessibility; the second
important point is: strategies for repurposing data before it
gets to SVG - in other words, mulitple means of compiling and
rendering the data sets
... tools that SVG offers natively - DESC and TITLE;
CW: roles attached to SVG element auto-generated
GJR: i need to find out more about the auto-generation process so i can not only advise on SVG accessibility, but can work on a mechanism for repurposing the data set
CW: will post to the email list -
or, better, use the wiki
... will post script code for you to investigate
GJR: that would be great
CW: similar approach to mapping -- wrapping in ubiquity framework
SP: not able to take on more work
right now
... hoping to get his code, but can't
... in ubiquity, uses class to turn control into google map at
latitude and longitude given; solved use case, but doesn't
demonstrate power of mechanism to create class from scratch
JJ: pointer, please?
SP: class is "geolocation" - have
range bound to object with 2 numbers (lat. and long.) but
class="geolocation" on that and turns into google map; if drag,
will move latitude and longitude
... was working last week
Uli: doesn't work in Safari
SP: demoed at mozilla conference using FireFox and Opera
JJ: can't type into location field
SP: slides load 2 javascript
libraries - one for slides, the other for ubiquity
... if type a "k" turns off key handling on slider
CW: at top is source file for
page
... changes directory with exchanges working on
GJR: works ok as far as i can tell with speech
CW: will follow up on picking up coding within RWAB - already checked into ubiquity repository and need to test on newer versions
SP: had sidewinder browser -
whole directory of great examples; when updated, erased google
maps example; did google maps only in XForms; if have control
that is lattitude and longitude, updated control with views of
map using tiles as google maps does, but doesn't matter where
tiles come from - selection of world map titles to choose from
- very simple expression in a bind
... could select different mapping services with surprisingly
little code - about 25k of xforms and extra stuff
CW: different javascript for each mapping service?
SP: mapping services deliver
tiles as URLs indicating which tile you are using;
... using XBL was able to map onto entire mapping
experience
CW: 2 use cases: 1 is hiding deep
script the other is binding on back end bindings and
communicating them over the wire
... both valid
... SMIL?
JJ: using SMIL as control language is area of interest
GJR: would that be with SCXML?
CW: SMIL alongside other objects/elements; SMIL as external controller versus running as internal application
JJ: XHTML+SMIL (MS spec) - also work on timesheets - small constructs - what stylesheets do for style timesheets does for applying timing
CW: SMIL block control rest of page or doing own thing internally
JJ: need to determine event model; even as control language, don't see how many things there are that need control in financial app
CW: wrestled with that;
auto-log-out after inactivity, etc.
... wizard-style navigation - controlled sequence of tabs in a
wizard
JJ: yes
CW: could you post about these things?
JJ: XHTML+SMIL - http://www.w3.org/TR/XHTMLplusSMIL/
... timesheets [scribe will add link]
... relevance another way to allow SMIL timing to interact with
XHTML or HTML documents
CW: GJR mentioned opera's XHTML+Voice plugin - should investigate overlap
CW: will post script code to wiki; JJ will post on SMIL patterns
JJ: won't be done by next week
CW: should cancell next week
because of AC meeting
... next RWAB XG call will be held in TWO weeks - 31 march
2009
Integrating SMIL timing into XHTML (slide show) http://www.w3.org/2002/Talks/www2002-smil20/slide24-0.html
Timesheets: XML Timing Language - http://www.w3.org/Submission/xml-timing/
SMIL Timesheets 1.0 - http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-timesheets-20080110/
web apps cdf paper delivered in helsinki in 2004 about Timesheets: http://www.w3.org/2004/04/webapps-cdf-ws/papers/helsinki.html
FWIW, GJR reviewed timesheets for the PFWG - findings ultra-positive, as logged by then-chair al gilman: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-smil/2008JanMar/0017.html
Timesheets - UA Capability Detection thread:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-smil/2008AprJun/thread.html#msg0
s/[scribe's note: pertinent links for timesheets info is included at the tail end of the minutes]/[scribe's note: pertinent links for timesheets info is included at the tail end of the minutes]/
s/scribe will add links/scribe's note: pertinent links for timesheets info is included at the tail end of the minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/john/jack/ Succeeded: s/the data setshould be repurposed for those who/the data sets/ FAILED: s/[scribe will add links]/[scribe's note: pertinent links for timesheets info is included at the tail end of the minutes]/ Succeeded: s/scribe will add links/scribe's note: pertinent links for timesheets info is included at the tail end of the minutes/ FAILED: s/scribe will add links/scribe's note: pertinent links for timesheets info is included at the tail end of the minutes/ Found Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita Found ScribeNick: oedipus Default Present: wiecha, Gregory_Rosmaita, unl, Steven, jackjansen Present: wiecha Gregory_Rosmaita unl Steven jackjansen Regrets: John Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2009Mar/0005.html Got date from IRC log name: 17 Mar 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/17-backplane-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]