See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 05 March 2009
<jwatt> gah
<jwatt> skype credit takes 15 minutes to go through
<jwatt> Zakim: I'm me
<scribe> Scribe: Cameron
<scribe> ScribeNick: heycam
ED: has everyone updated their entries?
<ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0002.html
<ed_> http://mcc.id.au/2007/03/telcon/?op=impossible
[much discussion, we'll take it to the list]
ED: have the HTML WG had their telcon this week?
CM: no it's been cancelled this week
ED: there are a bunch of comments on the wiki page
<ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_in_text-html_2009
<ed_> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090304#l-310
<ed_> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090304#l-464
ED: we could go over each of the
XXX comments in the wiki page
... the first one, should we say that this is "some feedback"
on their proposal?
JW: personally, i'm not entirely
comfortable with the whole SVG in text/html thing yet
... but i'm willing to go along with the proposal, and look at
how it would work, and work on problems we find with it
... next, about parse errors
... someone was saying in some email that "parse error" means
that the user agent can just abort parsing
... wondering if we should use the term "non-conforming"
ED: parse error is the term used
for "abort or follow the steps in the spec"
... it's mostly meant for validators, i guess
CM: i think it is that browser would continue, but other tools could abort if they wanted
JW: do we know what happens when we get non-<svg> SVG open tags outside foreign content?
DS: i think they'll be placed in the svg namespace but with a lowercased name
ED: if you put a <circle> as a child of the <body>, it gets put in the HTML namespace
ED: i think it would be similar
if you find HTML elements inside SVG, unless it was one of
those that break out of foreign content mode
... i.e., it would be put in the SVG namespace
JW: but it's nearly all HTML elements will break out?
DS: the list of elements that
break out are the ones with no overlap
... the spec lists which elements break out
ED: is this something we need as
an open point?
... i'll remove that and the "some feedback" point
... there's an XXX point about the camel case attributes
JW: we were talking about making,
in future, all attribute names lowercase
... but looking at the attributes, there are lots that have
mixed case currently
... if html5 and css are going to have to deal with those
anyway, we just lose internal consistency with out spec
... if html5 and css have to deal with our mixed case
attributes, i'm wondering what the value is
DS: many people mistype viewBox
as viewbox
... we could say that either case is allowed for existing
attributes
AG: and then slowly deprecate mixed case?
JW: we'll be stuck with mixed case
DS: i don't have a strong opinion
either way
... we have stroke-width, that's not camel cased
... what do we lose by not camel casing attributes?
ED: those we have without camel
casing is because of feedback from csswg (properties have to be
consistent)
... don't see why attributes couldn't be consistent in the same
fashion
JW: i think camel casing makes it easier to remember to type, if things are consistent
DS: so that would argue for making them all lowercase
AG: unless you wanted to distinguish between svg attributes and properties
ED: that makes it harder for us to use css for some of those
DS: the only thing i can think of is that by using camel casing we're avoiding name clashes with css/html
CM: i agree that making future attributes lowercase and leaving the current ones mixed case would be confusing
JW: i'm not sure we're all going to agree on this at the moment
ED: the point that we decided on
doesn't exactly say what we're going to do, just that it would
be preferable, for integration with css/html, if everything
were lowercase
... and we can come back later to decide about mixed case
attributes in svg
JW: ok i'll take the XXX point
out and reword the paragraph before it
... one of the other XXXs i added was about entities
CM: think that is in there just because i pointed out that html entities would work in my summary email
JW: if we're going to say that we recognise that entities won't work, why aren't we saying that we also recognising that svg with elements with the wrong case won't work when copied out, etc.
DS: you could say that we'd like
to strive for consistency in how entities are treated
... e.g. svg authoring tools sometimes generate entities, and
html defines its own entities
... we could strive for common processing of them
JW: for us, that would mean accepting html entities. what would it mean for html?
DS: maybe html could define a way
that it could parse and allow entities from a DOCTYPE inserted
into the middle of a document. i think it's ugly, but...
... but it would make it easier for people importing content
from an svg authoring tool
... there should be some consistent balance so that authors
know what to expect when using entities
JW: agreed [on the balance]
... so doug'll remove that XXX and add some text?
ED: one last one, does parse error imply non-conforming?
JW: i was just saying the second sentence was redundant, so can be removed
ED: i'll do that
... so that's all XXX points
CM: then there are the points on the mailing list
ED: it's going to last call, they're asking for comments before march 24
DS: i think it's april 15
now
... but we should review it and get back to them
ED: yes, i'll take an action to review it
DS: yes
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to review WAI specs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/05-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2484 - Review WAI specs [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-03-12].
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to review WAI specs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/03/05-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2485 - Review WAI specs [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-03-12].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Cameron Found ScribeNick: heycam Default Present: Shepazu, ed_, heycam, anthony Present: Doug Erik Cameron Anthony Jonathan Regrets: Chris Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0195.html Found Date: 05 Mar 2009 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/03/05-svg-minutes.html People with action items: doug erik[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]