30 Jan 2009


  1. WAI-AGE draft slides (WAI-AGE) - content walk-through



Doyle, Andrew, Song, Wayne, Yeliz, Sharron, Alan, William, Heather, Jack, Anna, Helle
Shawn, Marco, Shadi


Shawn: I am at the ATIA conference in Florida. I wanted to introduce Heather.

Heather: I work for IBM and I am the global accessibility lead. I help globally. I help make sure our policies are implemented.

Shawn: Welcome Heather. And now to Andrew. Have a great meeting.

Andrew: The topic for today.


WAI-AGE draft slides (WAI-AGE) - content walk-through


   Questions for consideration:

Andrew: Does everyone have the slides available? The ones I want to look at. A variety of demographics collected. Some say not interesting. Others say this gives some perspective. In the context of the whole world getting older as the time passes. Anybody who uses these slides, maybe one to four of the demographics slides.
... if you have had a look at those. How is the clarity and speaker notes clear enough. Any suggestions to help make the material clearer or more understandable. Or questions that would help me.

William: consolidate looking forward slide and some others. A more global instead of each country. Looking forward covers it with a graph on the right. Don't need to show each country is doing the same thing.

Alan: one or two rather than the whole thing.

Andrew: a lot of people are interested in their countries.

Sharron: that should be in the speakers notes. They wouldn't use every single country.

Alan: it does say that in the notes.

Andrew: the point to emphasize is the country demographics are getting older.

Alan: at the beginning how to customize the slide.

Andrew: yes good idea.

Alan: when I started looking at the European situation. I thought it would need a caption. I needed to see when first looking. Bettter as a graph?

Andrew: yes.
... any other thoughts? Better graph than data?

William: yes

Andrew: the last slide in the demographic set. Looking at the work force. I made it an option. Could use either the graph slide or data. Could do for the first time also. A choice of graph or data.
... in Australia we had very different preferences I would check the weather, and he the tees.

Alan: verbal or spatial. somehow make the transition to translate them in to the aging population, with aging related disabilities. Don't have stats for that, but the people with disabilities would increase also. Immediately visible between the two concepts.

Heather: I like that idea. There needs to be some kind of connection between aging and disabilities. Disabilities increase as people age.

Alan: the number of deaf people would have an impact, even if it didn't have hard demographic statistics behind it.

Andrew: A couple of different age groups, people with disabilities will increase significantly in the near future.

Alan: in the European Old age dependency ration three bars for each year it is hard to grasp what it is about. Why these two countries. A lot going on the graph not clear to me why it was. Europe's decling work force.

Sharron: graph of the table right before?

Alan: three years. One for EU, one for the Netherlands, and one for Italy.

Andrew: the point is to show, number of people over 64, rate is not the same as European average, quite a bit of differenciation around that.

Alan: perhaps if just one year, it would be easier to understand.

Andrew: only need to show retirees is all that is needed to show. The whole countries they can look up.

alan: more web is done by young people. Users are getting older.

William: I can't agree with that. I find dependencies above that disturbing.

Alan: younger people pay into the pension system.

William: I think the notion of depency drives the whole fissure in our society for no particular reason.

Sharron: probably another way to say that.

Yeliz: I agree with that. I think it is better to use a different word there.

Alan: really just says young to old.

Yeliz: say European old young age ratio. Instead of saying dependency.

Andrew: older to young ratio. I think right. Tells the story. It is an international statistic speak. Seems to be statistical speak, but you are quite right it is miss leading. Use older to young is more descriptive.

Alan: Uses retired more than age.

Andrew: an indicative figure that has the implication that the older group is going to be more significant.

William: retirement is being promoted when no such thing as retirement appeals more to me.
... do whatever we can to make clear in addition we get less interested in retirement.

Andrew: Ok I have two actions. Use the European outreach in the graph. Change the wording old age dependency, to older to younger age group title.

Alan: strictly speaking what it represents? Change the title.

Wayne: I would listen to the table I wouldn't be very aware of the graph.

Andrew: do the bullet points make sense to you. Wayne?

Wayne: yes

Andrew: I would put that in the slide.
... another I have had. On many of the slides we go out to 2050, and 2060 the extent of the forecasts. Some suggest, probably 2030 is as far as we go. Usually done as a decade basis to show the expected trend go 2030 2040, and 2050.

Jack: I would strongly agree with that. I agree with Wayne that it should be indicated as a trend. To show from our perspective right now. Very likely going to change because it is a trend.

Andrew: everybody support that?
... fairly strong support to drop the extended forecast and go back to a few decades for the WAI Age task force. Trying to have several years, Australia went 2006 2010, and other countries did 2010, 2020. The task force wanted to use consistent years. Some countries have 10 20, and other others 20 30 40, More smooth trend line when you plot the data. Wayne? anyone?

Wayne: there are techniques that really interpolate the aggregated trend. Should, we use this.

Jack: if Andrew was presenting he could explain, but if other people were adapting the presentation it is not clear if would be clear?

Andrew: I automatically jumped into bar charts, but an alternative is to use connected plot points. The line between plot poiint is the trend, with a nice connection between points.

Jack: perhaps it would work. If indicated based on missing data.

Andrew: I will take into consideration. Do one graph like that and ask for some feedback.

Helle: wouldn't be dangerous let them go further than what you have from the stats?

Andrew: I would not go beyond the stats, for US. has some six bars, and other countries have three bars.

Helle: some like Spain going to 2050.

Andrew: depends upon the data I had only had three years on the plot. 2015, 2035...

Wayne: just plot where they agree.

Andrew: as close I can assign to.

Wayne: not going to get perfect. I have one more question. The aging working population. A lot of the same impairments. Significantly affects accommodations you have to do over the years.

Andrew: we have two sets of data for the UK. But not other countries. UK estimates people over 50 nearly 40% of the population over fifty.

Wayne: between fifty and sixty four is pretty important. Might be worth considering.

Andrew: maybe have a summary slide, three or four points. One William made that people are getting older, and maybe proportion growing faster, and maybe older will experience impairments more.

Jack: I think will be really good, to make sure the data and slides to come back to what you want the information to show.

Yeliz: I think good. You have the learning can extended with the conclusions you just mentioned.

Andrew: good, another slide build in there.

Alan: given the trend of life learning. More becoming that age will use the web more than is the present in ten years a lot more using the computers and using the web and a different dynamic.

William: one the ratio the slide is used the birth rate is decreasing. In addition to more old people there is less young people.

Andrew: the decling work for slide is trying to draw out. They have young age go in the other direction and quite frightening as well.

Wayne: The decontructionist would complain about the dependency ratio. It is loaded.

Andrew: looking at the impairment slide...

Yeliz: so in this slide, definitely use some slides and use some other set of slides. Some are compulsary, and some a choice?

Andrew: yes

Yeliz: maybe differenciate them. A mark to indicate which set they can choose from and which are not optional.

Andrew: ok thank you. The more direction they get the more they get their presentaiton right. And not leave out crucial information. Ok Aging and Functional impairments slide. One thing to note, the sigificant change that goes on in the eighties. Particularly with vision loss, and hearing loss. Trying to get people over eighty is not always easy. People sixty five to seventy five, 20 % to eighty 50%, hearing 19% to nearly 50%, anything more to be

Helle: when you look at the cognitive limitations but actually because of hearing and seeing, the surrounding society take as the beginning of dementia. When I get back to work I can send more information if you are interested.

Andrew: that is quite interesting to keep in mind, if not impacting here. But to keep in mind about the people I know.

Jack: post to the list if several people are interested.

Andrew: the slides that talk about accessibility requirements and user improvements. Something that might make them clearer than they are at the moment?

William: should that be earlier?
... almost introductory. The basis of the whole slide show. The reason for slide is the observations from the literature review. Go earlier.

Andrew: I had two thoughts on that. The whole size. If we put that there, then other information people might go away with that than the messages.

William: you may have to put in both places. For openers why this is coming. Because of all the bullets points in the literature review.

Andrew: let me think about that one.
... accessibility requirements and usability requirements slide?

Wayne: I think that is accommodation requriements. Text size contrast...
... identifyable links probably a usability thing. Heading is accessibility. Lot of people annoyed that see web sites with low vision text size.

Andrew: the people who documented this said that it should 12 point, on the web page this would look very large. We say that the text size should be flexible and accommodate their requirements.

Wayne: flexible text size?

Andrew: I tried to draw out in the slide. can be made that size but I haven't made that clear I think.

Wayne: some would need 36 point.

William: they have a sub text like all sufficient contrast must be decided by the user. Affecting the contrast. Links that would affect clearness. I would like to say clearer headings. Choice of the user. Difference between the first two and the last three.

Wayne: one other thing if you read the description of the functional thing one thing is loss of color. Flexible color is what they need too.

William: from dark to light and blue to red, and loud and quiet.

Andrew: I will work on those further.

Wayne: take the size off and say appropriate text, like color, font family, contrast, size, appropriate text where you explain in the text.

Jack: I think what Wayne is raisging is really critical, not the specific recommendations they came up with, but functionally what the literature is saying, larger text size. But we say not larger text size, but flexibility for reading for a particular person. The simple solution is adapting what you have on the slide.

Andrew: thanks Jack. hit the nail on the head.
... such differences or details.

William: there is a balance between user control and simplicity. The over all thing of all of this is being controllable. If the user has to do, controllable is the whole idea of this stuff. The final product is a function of what the user wants rather than the original designer wants.

Andrew: they can get from the designer what they need. The last slide I want to look at or third or fourth last slide, participates is the heading, discussed more inviting or more friendly, anybody have more suggestions. Actually get involved in the project. Take an interest and what we publish.

Helle: I was thinking changing the order of the bullets. Commenting is a more active way to participate.

Andrew: what order?

Helle: You are invited to take part by commenting on our documents. Start with monitoring is easy.

Andrew: I think why I put monitoring first because it is an easy way of being involved.
... any marketing people among us.

William: include an immediate call for how we can improve this slide show?

Jack: maybe something like involve yourself, or how you can be involved?

Andrew: thanks Jack.

William: common practice at these events. Participates are encouraged to fill in comments and recommendations. Tie that process in with this slide?
... participation starts now.

Andrew: gives some immediacy.

William: was this review helpful on book review sites.

Andrew: really interesting how they do that. That's good.
... some really good feedback today. Combined with the feedback from the task force. Anybody have any overall comments?
... please feel free to email.

Wayne: how to be more effective.

Andrew: I think squeeky wheel, they put on the improvment agenda, but a hundred letters it jumps of the priority list. Planning to have easy instructions to follow to write to people who should be.

Wayne: something like moveon in the U.S.

Andrew: if you write yourself and ask your friends and family to write as well. Keep in mind. On the 20th to discuss. Thank you all. One last thing a volunteer to tidy up the minutes?


Summary of Action Items

Change the term "dependency ratio" to a less predjudical term like "old to young ration". Something descriptive but not charged.