Widgets Voice Conference

04 Dec 2009


See also: IRC log


Art, Arve, Marcos, Jere, Josh, Mark, Mike
David, Claudio, Thomas




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<MikeSmith> peh

<MikeSmith> timeless: ↑

Date: 4 December 2009

<scribe> Scribe: Art

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<marcos> Zakim: , IPcaller is I

Agenda review

AB: any change requests?
... try to allocate time for Window Modes
... any other requests?



AB: only more VC this year - December 18
... that date coincides with the publication moratorium for the rest of the year

<timeless> zakim +358 is Jere

Content-type sniffing

<arve> Zakim: aabb is me

AB: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0340.html
... Marcos, quick update and issue coverage

MC: in the Widget package we don't have a header (like HTTP)
... so we need to define a mapping of file extenstions to Media Type
... I have now submitted a proposal to the list
... It uses HTML5's content sniffing algorithm

Arve: I think Henri's proposal is basically OK

MC: I'm divided on it
... and still investigating

Arve: two things make sense here
... As Henri said, a simple solution is a good one
... If rely on sniffing, can have some probs with older HTML docs
... I'm concerned we can break some widgets e.g. layout
... May also have probs with document.write()
... If a document is labeled .txt and is actually HTML, a browser will treat it as HTML

MC: the proposal is to check file extension first and if that fails, revert to content sniffing

AB: you mean what is in the ED now?
... http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/#files

MC: yes

Arve: need to look at what Hixie wrote about this earlier
... I don't think we should do content sniffing

AB: we have at least member of the WG that has reservations re content sniffing.
... Any other feedback

<arve> <ArtB> ... If a document is labeled .txt and is actually HTML, a browser will treat it as HTML

AB: Mike, anything you want to mention on this issue?

<arve> that is not what I said

<arve> browsers will not try to sniff it

MS: in HTML5 we aren't really covering sniffing by file extension

AB: Arve, let's correct what I minuted re sniffing

Arve: browser will treat it as a plain text file

<timeless> zakim: +44 is Mark

Arve: I think the common sense solution is to specify what browsers are actually doing today
... we don't want to specify something that isn't being done today
... If we need a way to override that, then we could define an author mapping mechanism

<marcos> MC: for instance, .php text/html

AB: Marcos, what's the next step

MC: do we want to define the overide format for v1?

Arve: I think not
... this hasn't been a problem for Opera widgets

AB: sounds like we have a resolution: we will not define an override format/mechanism for v1
... any objections?


RESOLUTION: we will not define an override format/mechanism for v1

AB: what additional guidance do you need on this topic, Marcos?

MC: I just need to document this
... Wondering if there are any concerns about the requirement I proposed

<marcos> http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/#r12.-

AB: I don't have any major issues with this

Arve: I don't understand the need for this requirement

MC: I think we need this to provide guidance on how UAs process the files
... I think we will have some interop issues if we don't specify this

AB: do you see this req as harmful, Arve?

Arve: I don't object to it; I just don't see a need for it
... I don't think it will change the behaviour of UAs

AB: when I read that section, I don't see prescriptive text

MC: yes, I need to work on it; plan to do so today

ACTION-231 Work with Marcos to submit a proposal to address the feature fallback problem

AB: where do we stand on this issue?
... http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/actions/231

MC: this is related to the topics for next week's security workshop
... I am expecting related discussions next week
... At the moment, I think the text in the spec is OK
... But want to revisit this based on the Workshop outcomes

Arve: I agree with that reasoning

MC: I'd like to close

Arve: let's wait until next VC


URI Attribute Names

AB: proposal is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0398.html
... is this blocking you Marcos?

MC: no
... there is some inconsistency we need to fix

AB: my inclination is without strong opposition to let the Editor make a proposal
... and then codify it
... any comments on the proposal

<marcos> MC: do we really need <author img="">?

AB: without a compelling use case, I favor removing syntax
... do you have enough feedback, Marcos?

MC: yes
... we may want to expand on this in V2 but I will remove it now

AB: any problems or issues with that?


Window Mode

AB: Marcos proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0403.html
... this has been an open issue for a while
... we discussed it in Mandelieu for example

Arve: it is a hard prob
... Opera has a notion of window modes
... Perhaps it should be deferred to v2
... It needs to be in some spec but perhaps not the P&C spec

AB: what would we do, syntactially then, for the author?

<marcos> MC: syntactically, <widget mode="someMode">

MC: in the spec we list the mode values but not the behavior

Arve: I don't see the need for a default
... letting the impl decide can lead to some probs
... e.g. a mobile impl may default one way and desktop default a different way
... could specify the first four opts and then let the impl decide the default
... I could reply with some info about our impl

MC: yes, please do

JS: with the N97, there are things on the home screen that looks like widgets

AB: I don't know if S60 widgets has support for this semantics

[ Discussion about sizes for widgets ]

MC: I can check with Orange to see what they have

JK: I will check S60 and report back if I find anything useful

MP: if I find some useful info I will submit it
... what do you expect to specify in the P&C spec, Marcos?

MC: we need some more information than what I included in my e-mail

AB: what do you plan to do in the next few day?

MC: I will flesh out the definitions of these modes and refine their names

P&C Last Call

AB: our plan for several months now is to publish a LCWD of P&C spec by the end of 2008

<arve> ArtB: sorry about interrupting, but I have a hard deadline for now, as I have a train to catch

AB: I want to know what people think here

MC: I do indeed want to publish the LC this year

<arve> I support as-is with the changes outcome of this call

Arve: yes, I do support publishing a LC if it reflects today's discussion

MP: will there be a review period from the 11th to 17th?

AB: yes

MP: If something on the feature element comes out of the Security WS, I'd like an opportunity to reflect that in the LC doc

AB: understood

MP: given this, I support LC

JK: no specific opinion; need to abstain but generally positive
... need to look at the I18N part

JS: I need to look at it

MC: if Jere can look at the I18N stuff, that would be good
... there is one error I need to fix but otherwise it is stable
... I would appreciate it if we could get a complete review of the spec prior to going to LC

JS: ping me on Monday or Tues and I'll try to do it

AB: plan is to begin a CfC on Dec 11, end it on Dec 17 and submit pub request on Dec 18

Widget Testing

AB: does anyone object proposed directory for the test suite?
... Marcos, have you looked at the test?

MC: yes, some; need to do more research
... want to make sure Kai is interpreting the spec correctly

AB: I'll respond to Dom that we prefer using the widgets CVS directory as opposed
... any objections?


Next f2f Meeting

AB: start thinking about the end of Feb
... any other topics?
... Meeting Adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/12/04 16:10:32 $

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Found Scribe: Art
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Default Present: ArtB, Josh_Soref, Mike, marcos, +358.503.85aaaa, Jere, +47.23.69.aabb, arve, +44.771.751.aacc, Mark

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Present: Art Arve Marcos Jere Josh Mark Mike
Regrets: David Claudio Thomas
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0360.html
Found Date: 04 Dec 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-wam-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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