See also: IRC log
<JeffSchiller> give me a couple mins here
<trackbot> Date: 04 December 2008
i'm the 1.149 number (caller id messed up on the voip)
<HelderMagalhaes> (just to ease on the logs and general identification - also, I'll be following from IRC as usual :-) )
<aneumann> I am also just on IRC, not on the phone. I'd like to discuss SVG Open in the first 10-15 minutes because I have to leave then
<shepazu> scribeNick: Rob_Russell
<aneumann> as you may have heard we did not find a local organizer for SVG Open 2009 in California
<aneumann> our next lead is now Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - David Dailey is looking into it
<JeffSchiller> yes, i've seen some discussions about an alternate US location, PA
<aneumann> a research company (http://www.brainstage.com/) is interested in helping with the organization
doug: penn is okay, CA is better
jeff: CA is more popular tech destination
<aneumann> yes, but without a local organizer its too risky
doug: mozilla has joined the SVG WG, hired Jonathan Watt for fulltime svg dev
<aneumann> There is also Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh
<HelderMagalhaes> Rob_Russell: great to know about that! :-)
<aneumann> cool - good to hear abouth Jonathan
doug: jwatt previously worked for
joost, was a memeber of the svg wg and ig but joost has dropped
... asked jwatt to see if moz would be interested in helping organize
<aneumann> I hope that we have a decision about Pittsburgh before Christmas and are able to put out information and Call for papers before end of the year
doug: before going to a different location we should look into the moz option
<aneumann> yes, the moz option would be fine also - but we'd need a decision soon - we can't wait much longer
doug: jwatt may be able to get in on the IG calls within the next week or so (but he is busy)
<aneumann> also Jwatt may be too busy with getting into Moz and not sure he can devote much time to SVG Open
<aneumann> but he could help to get moz as a supporter/sponsor
<shepazu> aneumann, do you think it would bad to wait until January?
<shepazu> we could CfP before before the final location is announced
<aneumann> yes, it would be good to have decided on a location before christmas
doug: could say PA and CA are being considered
<aneumann> hm - I don't know - we can already prepare the Cfp before and then put it immediately live when we have the decision
<shepazu> I will respond more on the SVGOpen list
doug: having moz sponsor the open would be a "feather in the cap", worth waiting a month (personal opinion) and CA would get more people
jeff: agrees, CA is closer to tech stuff
<aneumann> ok - I have to leave now anyway. Lets discuss it further on the SVG Open list
doug: higher profile conf puts more pressure on MS than a smaller one
<aneumann> I wouldn't mind if someone else would take the lead who is in better contact with moz than me
doug: ultimately Andreas'
... will pursue Mozilla for a person to organize
<shepazu> I will contact other Moz people than jwatt, too
<aneumann> not only - I follow your advice
<aneumann> ok - thanks and bye for now ...
jeff: will jwatt be doing what tor was doing at moz?
doug: yes, jonathan said mozilla is going for Full SVG 1.1 compliance
jeff: interesting to see if we can get a plugin from Moz (for ie?) that's fully supported
doug: update from the SVG WG.
Mozilla has joined. Most people aren't in on the politics and
pain of getting the browser vendors to participate, this has
been years in coming.
... Dedicating a Mozilla employee to SVG is huge. Robert O'Calahan has been proposing extensions to SVG for CSS, layout & positioning & ease of authoring.
... Don't think they'll simply do SVG 1.1 and that's all - more of a long term dedication to SVG as part of an open web platform.
... Despite some misgivings at the WG, we're going ahead with hixe's proposal to do inline SVG in html5 (plain text html). The WG would like feedback, especially use cases and tests.
jeff: I followed some of the discussion, hixie proposal is the less rigid?
doug: hixie's proposal allows for error correction. In html5 it's not considered an error (badly formed dom) but in XML SVG it would be.
jeff: I don't mind going along with html5ish way as long as there's a way to export the SVG dom as XML
doug: that's something this group could do, come up with test cases & use cases
wade: do we have a pointer to this spec?
doug: will ask hixie to make a
... you basically have to understand all of html5 to get it
jeff: there's some contention but michael smith put out a spec for just the parsing
doug: the edge cases might not show up there
jeff: font element & text area clash with elements in html, worried about how that will work
doug: WG is taking a hard line in
that case, no whitelist or blacklist of elements or attributes
for svg in html
... may lose things like entities
jeff: not a big loss to me
doug: illustrator uses entities
... thinking of making an SVG Tidy that would replace entities and strip out unneeded namespaces
jeff: sam ruby made a post that ranks highly about scrubbing svg - google SVG Tidy (written in ruby language)
<scribe> ACTION: shepazu to publish version of HTML5 SVG syntax [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-svgig-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-15 - Publish version of HTML5 SVG syntax [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-12-11].
rob: it'd be nice to get this covered on This Week In HTML5 (mark pilgrim)
doug: discussed SVG in HTML with
the HTML WG at the tech plenary
... I think hixie's plan will win out over passing SVG to a strict parser
... this could have implications for standalone content as well
... it's possible that other browsers would have to understand this syntax which could be disruptive to existing SVG toolchains
jeff: last time we talked about generating content & rob would keep up on theming
<JeffSchiller> rob: has put up a version of the theme on planetsvg
<JeffSchiller> rob: go to planetsvg.com, log in, My Account > Edit, then choose the "Genesis_psc1"
<JeffSchiller> rob: then click save, the site will change theme
<JeffSchiller> rob: this theme is still a draft, lots of visual quirks
<JeffSchiller> rob: so things are moving along, want people to take a look, but I'm aware there are problems
<JeffSchiller> rob: might want to put the background in so it doesn't look so white-on-dark
<JeffSchiller> jeff: are you looking for feedback yet?
<JeffSchiller> rob: might make more sense for me to get it a little closer to 'done'
<JeffSchiller> manuel: can i download the theme so i can work on it and submit it back?
<JeffSchiller> jeff: can you email him a tgz?
<JeffSchiller> rob: will do
<JeffSchiller> doug: is there a feed for news items?
<JeffSchiller> rob: i believe it's possible, but not sure why its' not available yet
jeff: maybe we need a global feed, news tutorials, we should discuss what feeds we need exactly
<HelderMagalhaes> JeffSchiller: Yes, having the possibility to syndicate to specific feed was rather useful
<HelderMagalhaes> For example, a developer might
<HelderMagalhaes> just want news, an artist might prefer the uploaded images feed
<JeffSchiller> Helder: yes, i'll starta little page for this on the SVG IG wiki
rob: we need to decide on blockers from "prime time"
theme, feeds, primary navigation
jeff: will start a wiki page on
... we should discuss content on the site
... I did a tutorial, shiny buttons, I wasn't sure of the format of the content.I hosted images and svg on my site. How do we do this going forward?
rob: there's g2 and there are
image modules for drupal
... I think we should use a drupal image/gallery module
jeff: if images were uploadable then it'd be easier to create content. Maybe authors who need js could ship their files to an admin who could post it
rob: good idea
jeff: rasters are easy, for svg
& js standalone we'd want the author to send that to an
... we'd need to decide on paths
rob: we could publish guidelines for that
doug: I've hacked mediawiki to
allow svg, I think it was using IFRAME but OBJECT might be
... Wondering if we could combine upload with another problem. Helping people on irc I use pastebin, it's generic but we need a dedicated svg pastebin.
... Ideally it would show the svg source and the image
rob: sounds good, like a standalone site though
doug: maybe a subdomain on
... it'd be nice to be able to highlight code on a pastebin too
<HelderMagalhaes> Yeah, having a raster feature for a paste bin would be great!
rob: i think there could be xss issues with that
<HelderMagalhaes> (even if limited to static SVG only, which would be the natural option for security reasons...)
doug: that could be avoided by stripping out all js
<HelderMagalhaes> maybe using a rasterizer? rsvg or Batik server-side
<HelderMagalhaes> (that could also help new users to try SVG even without local support (in IE, of course)
doug: it'd be nice if, at least, people could paste their svg in an edit box and use that as a way to add images to the gallery
<stelt> HelderMagalhaes: i have a GUI for a rasterizer service somewhere
<gwadej> I've got to run to a meeting.
jeff: to make things easier for authors, maybe we could allow people to upload js & svg then an admin/mod approves it
rob: yes, i think that's a great role for a specific type of moderator
<HelderMagalhaes> stelt: Yes, I know about it, but the idea was allowing that online (server-side) or client side for click-and-see experience like in w3schools. For example, http://www.w3schools.com/js/tryit.asp?filename=try_dom_form_submit
<DavePorter> Sorry guys, I have to drop off! Thanks for the meeting and hearing about recent progress.
jeff: might try to put out a part 2 to the aqua button tutorial a week or so from now
doug: i'd like to do a follow up
to the button tutorial but different
... try to start new telcon time in the new year
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found ScribeNick: Rob_Russell Inferring Scribes: Rob_Russell Default Present: Doug_Schepers, JeffSchiller, gwadej, Rob_Russell, Manuel, Dave_Porter Present: Doug_Schepers JeffSchiller gwadej Rob_Russell Manuel Dave_Porter WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 04 Dec 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/12/04-svgig-minutes.html People with action items: shepazu WARNING: Possible internal error: join/leave lines remaining: <scribe> doug: mozilla has joined the SVG WG, hired Jonathan Watt for fulltime svg dev <scribe> doug: update from the SVG WG. Mozilla has joined. Most people aren't in on the politics and pain of getting the browser vendors to participate, this has been years in coming. WARNING: Possible internal error: join/leave lines remaining: <scribe> doug: mozilla has joined the SVG WG, hired Jonathan Watt for fulltime svg dev <scribe> doug: update from the SVG WG. Mozilla has joined. Most people aren't in on the politics and pain of getting the browser vendors to participate, this has been years in coming. WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]