<scribe> scribe: nick

<John_Boyer> Steven, are you able to join?

<Steven> just coming

<Steven> wrapping up from previous call

<Steven> kust a mo'

<Steven> just

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0047.html

Two examples using event() in a ref

ACTION John to fix event() examples in spec

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

Restrictions on W3C team travel

Steven: the February is fine for me, the June one I propose Amsterdam

John: Charlie was going to set up the London one in June, but this is questionably this is going to succeed
... We should consider
... Amsterdam for a location as the June FtF

xforms-submit-serialize receives empty submission-body value

John: Paul could you take an action item to look at John's reply

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0061.html

<scribe> ACTION: Paul to look at John's reply for http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0061.html qnd respond to the list or talk about it on the next call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-forms-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Paul

Resource-less submissions for validation

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0062.html

John: On the list someone responded that you can do a submission to validate the instance, and you can use the submission-error
... You can omit the resource and do a fake submission to do the validation, you get another error when the data isn't valid and when the resource isn't available.
... We specify that it is an error if you don't specify the resource in any way you get an error, but we didn't specify which error is send
... Does anybody mind fixing the spec?
... By specifying it

Paul: There is a typo in the first step

John: Is it unrelated to this issue

Paul: Yes it is unrelated just noticed ti while reading the spec for the issue we're discussing

ACTION John to fix typo in the first step of submission (udate instead of update)

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

John: Can I add a note about validating the instance with the fake submission with no resource

Paul: I know in FormsPlayer we validate, before doing anything else, that all required attributes are available

John: Yes, it could require changes to existing implementation because we don't say when the checking occurs
... If people don't want to specify when the checking of the attributes is done that's also fine for me
... But if we specify to do it in step 7 then we support this kind of validation

<scribe> ACTION: John to update the spec so it says that resource availability is checked in step 7 of the submission process [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-forms-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

Javascript implementation of replace all submissions

John: We need somebody to have a look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2008Nov/0008.html and send a reply to the list
... Paul can you do this

Paul: Yes I can

ACTION Paul to look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2008Nov/0008.html and send a reply

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Paul

Shortname request needed for FPWD

Steven: John Could you review the e-mail that I've sent related to this
... Is everyone happy with the shortname?

John: Everyone on the phone gave his +1 last week

Steven: Do we know that it is called XForms Transitional in our charter.

HTML Validator updates for XForms and "XForms for HTML"

John: They are modifying the HTML valuator to allow HTML5
... There is legislation that only allows valid HTML, using the W3C validator or with a validator that uses the W3C rules plus some extra rules
... The HTML Validator doesn't allows some of the w3c specs on the web in html
... They added MarthML in the past
... MathML doesn't works in all browsers, so they can use this against putting XForms in it
... And we now have an implentation that runs on all major browsers

<Steven> be right back

John: The question is what is the process

<Steven> sorry about that

John: There are alternatives to the one library that runs on all major Browsers that is royalty free

Steven: The guy who maintains the validator leaves this week

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/2001/03/webdata/xsv

Steven: The validator works with every dtd, but you can't make dtd for XForms due to the instance element
... If we create a schema than we can link to the schema validator page

John: I think this will help a lot with the W3C matrix of specs

Steven: Maybe Paul can provide the schema that is used in sidewinder

John: The trouble is that people go to the W3C HTML validator, not to an alternative validator
... We need to go to validator.w3.org

Steven: I think if that is the case then we need to go higher up, saying that it is important for business that the main validator supports the w3c specs

John: The XForms attributes we can achieve with dtd

Steven: W can use this in XHTML modularization then if we have a dtd

John: You need to specify another dtd for MathML and RDFa

Steven: HTML5 don't like dtd's and use something else to validate

John: So we could do the same and use schema
... Why is our xforms 1.0 schema not good enough

Steven: But no one uses plain XForms without a host language

John: But can't we put the XForms 1.0 and XHTML schema's together

Steven: This is what sidewinder did

John: What do we need to do put it on the main validator page

Steven: It should be fairly easy, we just contact the right persone
... I really think we should take this higher, maybe even to the AC

John: What is the escalation process

Steven: you should contact your AC-rep and send it to the AC-list

John: Did HTML5 did it like this

Steven: I think they took a shortcut

John: I think it is a mistake to put an unfinished spec in the validator, bcz. then you can't change it bcz. it is out there already
... The problem is that html 4 strict is always picked, bcz the W3C doesn't says that you can use another dtd
... The outcome is that everybody interested should contact their AC-rep
... In the meantime we can put on-line just a link that validates XForms+XHTML

Steven: We can use what is behind http://www.w3.org/2001/03/webdata/xsv to do the validation

John: Is the validator open source

Steven: Sort of, the people that own it are leaving next week
... A good person to talk with is Ian Jacobs

W3C Spec matrix

<John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/QA/TheMatrix

John: There is a spec matrix that includes XForms 1.0 but doesn't includes XForms 1.1

<John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/QA/

Steven: I think the QA group isn't active anymore

John: If they don't maintain W3C Spec matrix they should close it down

Steven: We could send a message to the communications team

<scribe> ACTION: Steven to send a message to the communications team asking to update the W3C Spec matrix at http://www.w3.org/QA/TheMatrix [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-forms-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-500 - Send a message to the communications team asking to update the W3C Spec matrix at http://www.w3.org/QA/TheMatrix [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-12-03].

<John_Boyer> 28<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0043.html>

<scribe> ACTION: John contact the validator team, the communications team and IBM's AC-rep about adding XForms + XHTML to the W3C validator [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-forms-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)

<John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2008Oct/0011.html

Last call issue access module (XHTML2)

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Nov/0043.html

<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2008Oct/0011.html

John: There is maybe a problem with id-resolution related to repeats
... The response from the XHTML WG is that we should just put it in our spec, and it shouldn't be said in the access module

Steven: The Access module shouldn't deal with repeats, it should be dealt with in the XForms spec bcz XForms introduces repeats. Moreover you have the same problem with css

John: If you want to do XHTML 2 with XForms, then you specify the id resolution there

Steven: If XForms expects to work with generic XML languages then XForms should specify this

John: We do this, maybe Access module can refer non-normative to XForms for the repeat id resolution

Steven: No other languages can do it in another way

John: Ok that is fine for me

Steven: John, can you hit the response link on the page

<Roger> bye

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/considure/considerer/
Succeeded: s/derer/der/
Succeeded: s/avialble/available/
Succeeded: s/help a lot/help a lot with the W3C matrix of specs/
Found Scribe: nick
Inferring ScribeNick: nick
Default Present: John_Boyer, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Roger, kenneth, prb, Steven
Present: John_Boyer Nick_van_den_Bleeken Roger kenneth prb Steven
Regrets: Leigh Uli Erik Charlie Keith

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 26 Nov 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-forms-minutes.html
People with action items: john paul steven