24 Oct 2008

See also: IRC log






<caribou> [First session with egov]

<caribou> see http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-egov-minutes

Geospatial XACML

carine, who is taking minutes?


<scribe> scribenick: rigo

AndreasMatheus (AM) presenting use case of cross border geolocation

using GeoXACML with permissions on who can see what and how to make that even dutch geo data looks in german style and vice versa

AM: applying some restrictions to it

Ashok: people telling us that XACML is just too difficult to use

AM: degree of freedom is so big that you have to write down some stuff on paper before starting to encode
... using MS Infopath to generate XACML, there is no XACML editor, I use XML spy

AM presenting the SEE-Geo Project.

a project of University Edinburgh

geolocation data service running on the national grid cluster

uk national that is

LK: why was there standardization

AM: geo data is very special and access control decisions are based on geo location data
... also exchange of policy information between actor in geospatial geo-infrastructure where there are autonomous services

LK: can't we have an ontology and integrate with XACML

Ashok: it is not within the XACML framework, for geo you need to add functions that are not part of XACML
... and in order for all to understand those functions, need for standardization

GN: XACML is designed to be extended that way

AM: doing a demo of the access controled map service


carine, can you kick renato for the break?

Joint meeting with Media Annotations WG

<caribou> see http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-mediaann-minutes.html#item05

JTC1/SC27/WG5 Overview - Jan Schallaboeck

PrimeLife/PLING interaction

<caribou> PrimeLife is currently working on use cases and will have requirements done by june 2009

<caribou> (internal draft in the project end of 2008)

<caribou> Rigo: we can organize workshops

<caribou> ... public W3C workshops

<caribou> Lucy: anyone from PLF going to openID meeting in Mountain View?

<caribou> ... US conference are focused on data protection more than privacy

<caribou> ... while european folks are more focused on privacy

<caribou> ... would be good to have someone from PLF there

<caribou> Rigo: P3P had to make the bridge

<caribou> JanS: issue about adoption if we don't do the discussion together

<caribou> Rigo: we want to keep the smallest complexity + possibilities to extend, to keep it manageable

Policy-Aware Web discussion

<caribou> Lalana: everything on the web has a policy

<caribou> ... we had a project considering Access Control

<caribou> ... instead of gathering credentials on the server-side, we expect the client-side to gather info and get signature

<caribou> ... the server can verify the proof

<caribou> ... now we are continuing that work

<caribou> ... trying to help users and policy administrators to understand why policies are sometimes violated

<caribou> ... or why a policy has been chosen

<caribou> ... reasoning about policies

<caribou> Rigo: Semantic Web

<caribou> Lalana: TAMI uses a specific reasoner

<caribou> ... based on N-Triples + quoting

<caribou> (TAMI is http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/)

<caribou> Renato: what about Rei?

<caribou> Lalana: Rei is older. It is rules languages expressed in RDF

<caribou> AIR http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/

<caribou> AIR http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/2007/AIR

policy language requirement for primelife: feedback on policy explanations and detection where policy matching failed

<caribou> Lalana: are you interested in benchmarks?

<caribou> Lalana: a set of policies to measure expression of policies in different languages

<caribou> Rigo: matching requirements with languages

<caribou> Renato: many requirements make it impossible to find a language that does all

<caribou> Lalana: test suite to test reasoners

<caribou> tlr: there are 2 levels of test suites

<caribou> ... policy languages should do this, reasoner should do that

<caribou> Rigo: some people say XACML is too complex

<caribou> ... you can get infinite requirements from data protection law

<caribou> ... more complexity, less usability

<caribou> JanS: it is not really complexity, it is that you can not predefine

<tlr> jans, rigo: primary vs secondary purpose, impedance mismatch between what law says and what formal languages express. Confusion ensues.

limitation of legal complexity to be expressed in policy languages to avoid killing complexity in the legal language

<caribou> JanS: unclear how far we can go in a given timeframe

<caribou> Renato: today most web users are not aware of rules/norms

RI: something is already more than we have today

<caribou> ... we can explain to people how they can use what is on the web

<caribou> ... like pushing the media annotations folks to include license in their annotations

<caribou> JanS: make system admins aware of policies

<caribou> Renato: in PLF, is SN a big use case?

<caribou> JanS: yes, one of the 3 main UCs

<caribou> Renato: any other idea about Policy-Aware Web?

<caribou> Renato shows: http://odrl.net/2.0/WD-ODRL-Model.html

Next steps - Social Network XG proposal?

<caribou> http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/

<caribou> http://www.gmpg.org/xfn/intro

<tlr> ACTION: renato to announce social network XG plans to PLINg list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-minutes.html#action01]

<tlr> There's coffee!

Andreas Matheus interested in formal testing and benchmarking for XACML and geoXACML

Contact TAS3 for the reputation systems

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: renato to announce social network XG plans to PLINg list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/10/24 13:18:06 $

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Found ScribeNick: rigo
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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: AM Ashok GN JanS LK Lalana Lucy RI Rigo caribou lkagal lkagal_ oshani renato scribenick tlr
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        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
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Got date from IRC log name: 24 Oct 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-pling-minutes.html
People with action items: renato

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