See also: IRC log
<Owen> I have another telecon in a half hour so I won't be able to stay long.
<john> is anyone on the telephone?
[scribe list: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List]
john: any agenda adjustments?
[none heard]
john: we need a scribe, volunteers?
[long time waiting, nothing heard]
josema: I'll do it, but we have to stop this!
martin: dutch government foundation leading
with IT implementations
... OSS, also participate in IDABC stuff
[all the rest are known :)]
http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Teleconferences#How-to_join__-_IRC
http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot
<Vagner> Vagner, from Brazil, joined
[jose shows how some basic commands work]
http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/open
close ACTION-10
<trackbot> ACTION-10 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed
close ACTION-11
<trackbot> ACTION-11 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed
[done and in the agenda and list]
[john explains the themes sent to the list and how to prepare F2F]
john: chairs discussed about structure of use
cases and number
... only one so far; we would like to come up with more
... people to submit one case before the F2F and have the F2F agenda
... built around those
... thoughts?
-> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Use_Cases
john: volunteers?
[none heard]
john: in the post I made on Monday I proposed
10 possible cases
... and areas we would need to explore
... perhaps we need more
... I would expect us to come up with some outlined use cases
... changing slightly the topic
... why none heard so far?
... is that because they would not be useful?
owen: number of regrets may be because of use
cases not that important
... people busy
<Owen> I didn't mean to suggest that use cases may not be helpful but, merely, that the fact others have not provided any yet is a reflection of the fact they are busy. They should contribute whatever they can.
anne: use cases could be very helpful to focus
ideas
... this is a problem database, but not sure it's obvious
... for everybody to volunteer and participate
john: eg. show us a better way competition in
the UK
... I already got about 100 use cases from that
... amazing work
[scribe lost a bit here]
kevin: we should try to concentrate on a small
set of cases to show the main areas
... and we want to achieve
anne: I think the structure of groups works for me
john: do you think there are some US gov cases that could fit there??
anne: ??
[john talks about pattern behind the competition...]
[scribe lost phone connection, hence a couple minutes]
john: I see people asking for help to each
other about taxation in forums
... if we could engage the government there to help them, it'd be interesting
case to explore
anne: maybe we just need good stories about why that's happening
<Owen> The U.S. federal Web Content Managers strategic plan is available at http://xml.gov/stratml/WCMstratplan.xml I suppose it could be considered to be a set of use cases for the eGov IG.
kevin: we talked previously about persona-like approach
anne: makes sense
rachel: do we want stories of successes or also some that recognize we have some work to do?
kevin: both, gap analysis is also useful to identify what's missing
rachel: speaking of US executive branch, I
think UK is ahead of us
... we have good information but not good transformational, it's too
fragmented
... this is a big challenge
john: I understand some of the good stories will show some issues
[john asks for input about F2F, and what we should bring from there]
[john reviews "web basics" and ideas sent to the list around use cases and framework]
john: how much effort we should put into the
framework and how much on "web basics"
... keeping in mind money is very short
anne: first call for me
vagner: same
<martinmollema> As this is my first call and as I am muted Iam just absorbing
[some talk about current situation and how it will affect eGov projects]
owen: is money an issue for us, for this Group?
anne: we don't need financial resources "per
se"
... just talking and working and sharing
john: in terms of sharing it costs nothing
... and magical knowledge transfers happen
... great in hard times that we'll experience from now and next 2-3 years
... where we need learning to save
... my personal view is being able to do lots with little money is a great
story
kjetil: somewhat different situation in Norway,
we expect to do more work for eGov since the state has sufficient money
...it has been holding back to not overheat the economy
...now that the prices for our services are goind down somewhat
...the government may well take advantage of the situation to increase public
spending
john: I'm wondering if "can we do more with
very little?"
... is something we should use as theme?
anne: I think that "share what we can" is a very important argument
rachel: I agree
john: I encourage group members to document a
success or a challenge and share it with the Group
... value for money, web basics and stories/use cases could be the main three
things to work on
... comments?
[none heard]
rachel: I would probably add something about
"plain language", helping people to find what they need
... and not use much government technical terms
... we have writing standards, peer review, maybe something like this could
be added
john: good example
... resource discovery is a tricky issue
... difference in government and citizen terms to search for something
jose: I could provide an example on that using
SW technologies
...in fact, it was already published: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/CTIC/
john: recap: use cases around languages,
semantics to mediate between man in the street and government...
... anything else?
<kjetil> An acquitance of the Computas Semweb group wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state
<kjetil> so that they can more easily find what rights they actually have, but that is hard to find
rachel: thanks john for laying out the "straw man" discussion
<martinmollema> There is a research going on in the netherlands, on the search engine for citizens to browse through all different government organisations, aiming to provide the correct information.
<martinmollema> i am muted
ACTION kjetil to send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state
<trackbot> Created ACTION-13 - Send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2008-10-22].
martin: project in NL that extends up to 600
organizations
... adding semantics so when a person needs to contact a given org
... he/she should not worry about who is in charge, but the system will
help
... the citizen to contact the right one within the gov
... will ask people in charge
john: this was a useful conversation
... any burning issues left out?
... eg: accessibility, should we have a story just about it or spread over
others?
<Owen> I need to sign off.
anne: in some cases, we might want to build on others work
john: value we can add is contextualizing
anne: I agree
john: trust/provenance also an important topic
rachel: trust issue is a very big one for us
... make us nervous about what it will done with the info
john: I understand... and context is
important...
... is misuse a big concern of yours?
rachel: case of purported government info worries me
kjetil: digital signatures, powerful stuff to avoid these issues
<john> sorry - holding phone, typing, thinking - its a whole new multitasking experience!
john: recap at the F2F, maybe come up with
another couple cases in the morning
... shape them in the afternoon
Next meeting: F2F, then 29 Oct
john: we have a little bit more clarity for
F2F
... a couple more areas to work on
... and useful conversation today
... encourage you to post your thoughts before next week
... so we could take up at the F2F
[ADJOURNED]
ACTION-13 - Send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2008-10-22].
[End of minutes]